Dan Irwin: EDM, Sapiens, and the Illusion of Free Will | #41

Live from South Beach Miami, Dan Irwin returns for his 3rd time on the podcast!!

In the first half of the episode, Dan (DJ M0TTA) and Tom discuss Dan's experience as an electronic DJ in Jacksonville, Florida. Dan also explains the differences between each sub-genre of EDM such as Techno, House, Dubstep, etc. 

In the second half of the episode, they discuss random topics such as Religion, Aliens, Poi, History, Free Will, God, and the Multiverse. Dan and Tom have both recently read the book Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari and topics from this book heavily influence the conversation. 

EPISODE LINKS:
Dan's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6pOVEa33ChZ1Zbg7LTeiMw
Dan's IG: @motta_x
Dan's TikTok: @motta_x

SPONSORS:
Drive Fitness: https://www.drivefitness.app/ to download the app

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast Website: https://thedriveprogram.com
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-drive-program/id1504030059
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7Jvfsmf48ft9KX3j1qqx3D?si=3073783906bf42b0
RSS: http://feeds.buzzsprout.com/951100.rss
YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6HiQoCw7lfOmGF_waGbUjA
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedriveprogram/

FOLLOW TOM:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tom_driver369/
Twitter:  https://www.instagram.com/tom_driver369/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tdriver369 

Transcript

Tom 0:36

I'm just messing around, but the one thing I did want to talk about is DJing.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Why did you want to be a DJ? So initially, when the pandemic first began and when everything shut down and I lost my outlet to go to festivals and to see live music, I wanted to create my own version of that. So like I always wanted to, and like ever since I started going to festivals, like I've always had an interest in it and I've always wanted to eventually get into it. But I felt like at that time it was the right time to start doing it. And my friend Dylan, he um he's been a DJ like three years before I started, and he had a deck that he was trying to sell, like the same time that I was trying to find a deck. So I went down to Richmond and then he showed me like all the basics when I first bought it from him. And then after that, since we were all locked down, couldn't do anything for the next like three three or so months. Like until probably I want to say like May or June, I just went ham and I posted a mix every week. Okay. Because I didn't like I made it a thing for myself in that time period to post a video or a mix at least once a week. So since I didn't have anything else to do, I just used all that energy that was pent up. Like I want to see live music, like this is my passion, this is what I do, to doing it myself and to having some other version of it. So that's that was the initial drive that got me into it. And then um while I was in that phase during COVID, I didn't even think about the possibility of playing live for people because that wasn't an option. And I was just doing it more so as a hobby, as self-expression and just having fun with it. But then my mixes got sort of popular on SoundCloud and like suddenly a lot of people fucked with it. So my first opportunity was to DJ Troy's birthday party, which was still during like not the lockdown, like it was right when shit was starting to open up slowly. But when he had that party, he got a lot of flack from people being like, yo, this is too early, like you shouldn't have a party right now. But it was also in Virginia too. So I feel like people up there weren't as open to having gatherings yet. But yeah, that was the first time I got a chance to play for people live, and it was a lot of fun. And then after that, I moved to Florida a month later, and then I didn't get my first official gig until it was November of this past year, so almost a year ago. And what happened is I met this guy at an after party who was a manager for a few DJs in Jacksonville, and we were the last two people at the party because they had a house DJ play. Um, I think he wasn't the main promoter for that for that event, but he was there and then he hosted the after party at his house. So once everyone left, it was like five in the morning and I was still just like lit and there. And then me and him were just on the decks kind of kind of fucking around. He was like, wait, so do you actually DJ? I'm like, yeah. And then I sent him my sound file and we kind of talked a little bit. And then the next day he peeps all my mixes. He's like, yo, dude, you're actually fire as fuck. Like, I'm like, I'm gonna put you on. And then a month later, he got me booked from for my first show. And then he was my official manager actually, whoa, for like five months. And I did, I think a total of five shows under him. And then my most recent show was through another promoterslash manager who's who actually runs the club that I played at. So yeah, my last show was about a month ago now, and don't have any more planned because I'm more focused on the fitness right now, and it still is sick, but like I was sort of briefing at last night, it's like when you get gigs at an official club, at least in Jacksonville and like where I play, the promoters and the people who book you want you to be an aspiring DJ. And if you're not producing, if you're not actively showing that you want it to be something consistent for you, then you're not gonna get booked because there's so many other people that make their own music and that are really taking it seriously that want those gigs too. So since I already have a foundation and I have gigs there, I could keep on playing, but I'm just unsure of if it's fair to the other people who actually want this shit and want to get their name out there. And I'm just taking the spotlight from them. But at the end of the day, they have a lot of shows there like pretty much every week. So it wouldn't really be a big deal if I just had one slot here and there just to do it. But yeah, I just feel like I chose fitness as my direction because I feel like fitness and also music are like the two things I care most about in life. But I'm going the fitness direction because I feel like it's more scalable and I like being active, I like being outdoors. I just like feeling fit. I also like music, but I don't like the aspect of the learning process as far as how to produce and how to and just how patient you have to be. And it's such a rigorous process to learn the basics of a whole doll, which is an audio workstation, and it would probably take me like two years of me being fully invested focused to create a song that I would be somewhat happy with. And it's like, do I really want to put myself through all that time just to like realize it's not for me? Because I don't like being in front of computers or screens. Like I don't like having to sit in one place, which is why the whole fitness thing is also better for me. But that's pretty much why I'm now shifting gears and it just feels more right that way.

Tom 6:53

Yeah, man, it blows my mind that like between this weekend and our last like actual podcast session, because like we've done some the last couple nights, but like it was like a year and a half ago, I think, is when we did the one called Mota Vation.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Remember?

Tom 7:08

Yeah. Um, and like it's crazy to me that at that point in time being a DJ was still kind of like a dream. Because I didn't get, yeah, like I think you're my first kid, yeah. You must have done Troy's birthday, but not like That was the only thing I did up until that point. But that's like a friend's birthday. Like, I still didn't think of you as a DJ, you know? And it's crazy to me that like you went through a whole like DJ phase where you were actually performing and like you like if I had interviewed you at that moment, you were gonna be like, yo, this is what I'm doing with my life, you know what I'm saying? But now that like now you've already gotten to the point where you're like actually calisthenics and like fitness is like my new like my main thing. I don't know, it's just crazy to me, first of all, that like you just had that whole phase. But since I I understand fitness is like the focal point now, but this is still the best time for me to like interview you about that phase. So, like what did it feel like to be up on stage performing and like what I mean that's gotta be a dream come true. Like, I feel like you needed to go explore that you needed to go explore that experience, like in order to know that fitness was the right thing. So what yeah, what the fuck did that feel like? Yeah, like how was that?

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Well, my first couple shows, it was like the side terrace stage of a main club. Uh-huh. So it was like maybe 20, 30 people, and it was more so people are just there kind of talking to each other, and then also like having moments where they're vibing out to the music, but it's not like they're there focused on me the whole time. So, like, I'm not in the background, it it's like it's the main thing going on, but it's more just like social people are talking, and I was also on somewhat early too. But those didn't really feel like what I envisioned it to feel like. Yeah. But at the same time, when I first got up there, I was for sure pretty nervous. And uh my first set was pretty good. Um, I just went into it free. I didn't really have a plan for it, and it all turned out well. But um, as I got into getting the bigger shows, it was definitely crazier because I I had a lot more freedom as far as what I could play, and I could structure the set how I wanted to, and just let my vibe shine through the way I I would want it to. So playing actually feeling it. Yeah. So when you're playing at like an an official club that has like a really good sound system and you have lasers, lights, LED screens, and shit, and like it it's like the full experience. So it feels crazy to be that guy like up there. But yeah, I mean, at the same time, I would always feel like I would just want there to be more people, or like I would always be eager for like just people who are into specifically my vibe, because when you are DJing and you are seeing with the crowd, like how like how they're responding to it, like there's some people that are, some people that aren't, but then I'll be up there just wishing like if only the right people were here to like make to kind of elevate the whole crowd, and like you know, if a majority was like going brazy, most other people would too, kind of like at the club that we were at last night, because only a few people were vibing to it, and it just made it so like the whole crowd energy was kind of like not really there because a majority wasn't vibing. So, I mean, but for me, like in most cases, like most people are vibing, but since I'm on earlier, usually no one's lit enough to just be going crazy and having a good ass time. They're all just kind of like slight dancing and but like not just like going crazy the way I I would want it to. But like if I was on an hour or two later, like at my last set, I was on at 9 to 10:30, and then the next guy, like the energy was just higher because he probably had twice as many people as I did, and people were more fucked up. So when that happens, it's easier for like the whole crowd to just gain this collective energy. But when when you play early, it's it's hard to really feel that. So when I'm up there, I get the thoughts like, damn, like I wish I was on later, like I wish I could have a better crowd type shit, because I'm always eager for more. But yeah, at the same time, it's crazy, it's fun.

Tom 11:17

But yeah, I was actually gonna bring up the club from last night because it honestly didn't seem that fun to be that DJ. Like the people there weren't dancing enough where it's like, and I don't know, it just seemed like frustrated. Like I and I've seen DJs come to like my fraternity and stuff, and like no one just was a bad night, and just like it just seems not fun to be there on that night for sure. Like, and or like you were saying, like being the secondary guy, you know what I'm saying? Like being not the main guy, and then people are just like there to get a break from the main event when they're in your room. So automatically you're like stuck in like a position of like earning, like earning their trust instead of like, oh, they already expect you to be good. You know what I'm saying? Like it's you're just like already at a handicap or something, like at a deep at a default. It's just sounds like a struggle. But I'm glad you got at least a couple shows where like yeah, you were the main guy, like you were the main character, everyone was there to see you type shit. Like, I think I'm still gonna keep trying. I would rather get five minutes on like being the main guy at the right time than having an hour being the side guy. You know what I'm saying? Like five minutes of that, yeah. I think so too, actually. Right? Yeah. And then you can really probably enjoy the rest of the night too if you're just doing like a 10-15 minute set.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Yeah. But I think I'm still gonna try to get a few gigs if I can, because through the last guy that I got the show with, he's he's the manager for the whole club. So if there's anything coming up, I can just I mean, like, I had a good set too, so I'm sure he'll be or he'd want me to play again.

Tom 12:46

So I feel like you should. Like, I it kind of hurts my heart a little bit to see you not give up on this dream, but not be as excited about it as you were a couple months ago. Like, you know, I don't know. Like, I feel like you should keep keep trying to do it in some capacity. I know that like you're not as committed as the other guys, so it feels odd, but like ah, dude, I just feel like if you get good, specifically if you get good at doing one like good set, like you should be able to like make like a couple hundred bucks on the weekends just doing this like as like a side hustle and like that's true, just like get really good at your one set. Like, you know, you don't have to be you just feel a fill a specific niche, you know what I'm saying? That people want. And like whenever like what what is your your your sound? Like what what would you describe it as? Bro, it's been changing a lot.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

God damn. That's so evolved. Actually, yeah, funnily enough, my manager and I split ways because he's focused on dubstep, and that's like so he he only manages people who are producing and also DJing dubstep, and then that's what I was like originally. I wanted to only do dubstep, and then also have a few other things kind of mixed in, but the primary part of my set would always be dub. And then I'm not sure if you know Hardwell. You probably so Hardwell I love Hardwell. He he played at Ultra for the first time, so he had a four to five year hiatus where he didn't tour, he didn't really music, he just took a complete break. And then he came to Ultra for his first set in four or five years, and he has and he had a whole new album ready. He played the whole album at Ultra and I was just sick, I've just played a few songs from it. Okay, yeah, this trip already. But um, so his new sound is like hybrid because it used to be just all big room, and now what's getting more popular is just straight techno. But his new sound is mixing big room and techno into the same. And when I first so I watched it live on the uh live stream, and when I first heard it, dude, I was just like, dude, this this is the future. This sounds so right, it's such a good mix. It's like it just sounds amazing. And the fact that he's starting it, like he's starting a revolution of this new sound because he's like one of the biggest DJs. So I'm thinking, okay, like I should hop on this train because I love it so much. And if I were to produce it, I feel like I'll be able to be pretty creative with it, and I would sound so different than anyone else that it would really help me. So, like, right after his set, I got super inspired for like a month, and I and like I wanted to go that route. I was like, Oh, and then I told my manager, I was like, yo, bro, like I'm sorry, but I'm gonna just go full techno now. And then and he was like, Yeah, you're dumb, you're done. Yeah, and then he's like, bro, I mean like he got kind of mad at me actually. Really? Yeah, and then like lame because it's still the T, bro. I mean, it's it's it's not a big of a deal. But he like he just thought I was fully committed to wanting to be on his team and like start actually producing. And he actually made me delete all or archive all of my IG content and only have it be me DJing or like some post about Really? Yeah, I didn't notice that. So I did that for like a month. Did you get rid of all the fitness stuff basically? Well, I had I had like four or five posts. No, I think I had five or six posts total, four of them were DJing, and then one was like Okeechobee, which is also like on brand. But and then I don't think I had any fitness, yeah. So, but like that was before I did fitness. It was like a month before I got into fitness. So he made me archive all my shit. And so for like a month, I was actually like trying to like do that. And then so then I told him I was like, yo, like I got super inspired. Like, I like I know this is like really out of the blue and spontaneous, but like I really do feel like I like if I am gonna do this, it has to be techno because creating dubstep is so complex, it's there's so much competitiveness, like so many underground artists that are so talented that have like created like amazing sounds and are like have so much potential that it's oversaturated and fl and for one to be harder to learn to do that, and two, it's oversaturated, so it'd be harder to stand out. Whereas techno, it's not that popular in the US yet. And if I were to make a new version of techno, I just feel like it would be kind of easier to produce. I would have more fulfillment doing it because it it's more core to me than it is to upset. And I feel like I could just bring a new wave, something that's just new and different. Yeah. So my heart was in techno, and then I told him, and then he was like, all right, bro, like I'm still down to help you out and like find you the like the right people to get you connected with, but I can't manage you if you're not gonna be like on that dovstep train. So I was like, okay, it's fine, like I just want to go with this. And then for a little while after that, I was still focused on wanting to actually make techno and shit. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought about being in front of a computer all day. And along that same time frame is when I quit drinking and got more into fitness. So like and then you're just like so. Then like naturally, I just felt more inclined and it was easier to just post fitness content whenever I could, as opposed to like sitting on my computer all day trying to learn this that I can't put anything out to the world for years, even though I'm like actually good.

Tom 18:25

So is it fair to say like you like DJing, but you don't like producing? Like you don't like you don't like the actual creating the music.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

No, like I just haven't given myself a fair shot at it because I'm so like it's so daunting to me. It's like a big learning thing. Like, I just don't even want to like put myself in there. Like I like I've dabbled a few times, but like I just get so annoyed. Like I hate tedious shit on the computer, like in any way related to technology. I just hate doing tedious shit, bro. It's just not like I like feeling alive, bro.

Tom 18:58

That's how like it is for my app. It's like I care about the fitness, but like in order to get the app that I want, it like requires like going through all the bullshit, like all of just like the fixing bugs and shit. And then sometimes you forget like what you're even doing, and you're just like, I don't fucking care about this computer bug. Like I care about fitness, but I've extrapolated so many times away from what I care about that I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, which is why I've taken big breaks from the app at times. Like, I'll never give up on it. But if you notice, like I just won't work on it for a year. Like, it's just like sometimes you need to take a step back. Yeah, I think I'm ready to return. I've been telling you like I have a software job again, but like I had to take big breaks from that type of work, bro. It gets tedious, and and and I just had to get in shape too. I just like uh this is keeping me out of shape, which is the whole point is to build an app that gets you in shape. I'm just like, I can't fucking handle it, bro. You know, you can't handle it sometimes. Yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, dude, I get that. So, but can you just like be a D like why can't you just like it's be really good at creating a live, like a set, like a playlist in the light.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

It's in the context of where I perform, like it's competitive, and people are always trying to get gigs that are working on their music, like I said. But like I can always branch out to other places too.

Tom 20:15

Here's the thing that I think that they go hand in hand. Creating music and and performing the music are like obviously like such hand in hand. And of course, if you're like an artist that creates music, you're like, you know, you're you're special and you're gonna be good at playing it. But isn't there like a little like people who make their own music, they always want to play their own fucking music live, you know what I'm saying? And most people are not the best 1% in the world at making music, you know what I'm saying? And so isn't there a some benefit of just having a DJ who strictly plays other people's music because then you're not like you're not always trying to like show off your new shit that you just made that's like still your testing and like figuring it out? Like, can't like isn't there a benefit of just having a DJ's DJ, not like a producer DJ?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

It depends on the context of the venue and a situation, like yeah, because if you're playing at a club that's that only plays EDM, like they want to book acts that have their own music. Like that that's just that's a baseline, that's a standard of how it is, how you get booked. Because when people look at your profile and what you have, they okay, cool, he has a few mixes, but where is his own music? Like it it just it adds so much to you to to your entire portfolio. Like it it makes you complete, and like that's how the promoters, that's how all the managers see it. So, but but there is well, like you said, there is a niche for just a good DJ that plays other people's music, but that's more in the context of a bar that's not like that's not trying, you know what I mean, like that where people just want to go just to like get drum as fuck and have fun and just hear bangers all night. Like that exists, but that doesn't exist at the club that. I get booked at. And it's the only club in Jacksonville that plays EDM. So that's like I could try to branch out to other places, but if there's not a primarily EDM crowd, it wouldn't work as well. And I don't at the end, I don't really have any interest in like playing mainstream like of like a bar set, just like you know, and it like like I don't have that kind of inspiration, but I could do it just to make money off of it, but like it's not really me. And I want to and yeah, if if I'm gonna be performing, I don't want to be like that guy at the first bar last night to just like like like just playing like Meek Mill and like fucking two-minute build-up with no beat, like what the f and bad transitions.

Tom 22:41

But no, you're right. Like there is you're in between the two worlds because like um in college, Sabrina and I, we used to just uh get up there and play like the aux chord, and we were so good, but mostly because we were just willing to play what people want. Like we would take requests and we would like kind of read the crowd and be like this the crowd likes this artist or this type of music and just kind of read the crowd. And like we were there to like, we weren't there to be like a DJ who's like I know best. We were there to just kind of like funnel the energy exactly into the playlist that we were playing, you know? And I feel like if you could I feel like you could have a side hustle on the weekend doing that, basically, where you could get booked for like like we could easily play like weddings, like me and Sabrina could easily play weddings. Like, there's just like a playlist, you could probably find it on Spotify and just get up there and just like put it on, you know? Like you could do that too, but then you're not like putting your own EDM style, you're playing like crank that soldier boy.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

But people want to hear. And you're playing like but then I'm mixing in my own style as well. But I'm making sure that I'm giving the people what they want primarily and then hinting at my own shit here and there that that would blend in well. That that that way I I can still portray my my energy and my vibe. You don't want to just go play buttercup baby throw, like I.

Tom 23:56

Yeah, no. But what about I read it? Buttercup baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby. Don't you think I would try the bass boy boy bum bum bum bum bum.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

You know? But what I would do is have fuego, fuego, fire, fire, and then have that be a build-up and and see what draw. Fuego, fuego, fire, fire, fuego, fuego, caliente, caliente, la playa.

Tom 24:20

Hey, la playa. So me and Dan, I think we talked about it actually on one of the past podcasts. So I think oh yeah, we did last time. We like Bad Bunny now. That's that bunny is the goat. Next topic. But next topic. For sure. For sure, man. Yeah, dude. I don't know. I I feel like like you're saying, specifically in Jacksonville, there's this one club and whatever. Like, I feel like you should still keep it as a hobby because maybe you'll because you'll move like you you might not live in Jacksonville forever, and like you might go into like a new area and like just there's a right situation for you to go there and play the set you like every week.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

You know, I feel like here there's a lot of opportunity to play in like smaller clubs that like it people want to just hear fun shit, but they also want to hear EDM too. And it's not like because there's so many places, there's so many bars and clubs here that like think about the club from last night.

Tom 25:13

Like, that might not have been the funnest thing in the world, like compared to being like committing your whole life to this, you know what I'm saying? But like, what if like I made like$400? What if that guy made like$400? Like, he probably didn't get more just the cover fee. Yeah, probably like$600. So, like I feel like I could probably get booked there. Like, actually. Actually, yeah, yeah. If I wanted to. I mean, well, that guy definitely Miami. I don't think that guy makes that music he was playing.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Do you? I don't think so. Possible. I mean, I I'll just see his name, but um, see, but what also made me sad about last night is that for that kind of set, he was playing tech house, but like deep, like really deep tech house, which is like catered to EDMP. Like, no one can really fuck with that kind of house if you're not into it. Yeah, I was not vibing because there's like house that's likable and that's mainstream, but then there's like deeper house that that like puts you in more of a flow state, and like he was playing that kind of set. Yeah. So with that kind of set, you need everyone to be on board. Yeah, it's so critical because that that makes the whole experience. So that's what made me sad, like not seeing that that many people going into it. But damn, yeah.

Tom 26:23

Let's let's talk about all the different genres of like electronic music because there's so many like bread and butter. Like let's start. There's deep house, right? And that's just like, how would you explain that? Like in layman's terms, just like like long builds with like big, you know, like paced out, like punches. Like, I don't know, how do you how do you describe it? Because I don't know how to Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I'm trying to think of an artist you might know that makes Deep House. No, you probably don't. I mean, do you know Lane 8? No. Yeah, okay. So Deep House. Okay, it's usually the same BPM. So standard house or like mainstream house is like 125 to 128, sometimes 130 BPM. Okay. Deep house is probably like 126 to 122 range. So it's a bit so for one, it's a bit slower. Okay, and it's a lot more progressive because like any mainstream house will be like a three-minute long song. Like off-rip. But Deep House is like seven. Deep House is like six, seven minutes, and it's patient. Like, like you can feel the sounds coming and and they just like transition in slowly. I was getting kind of bored, to be honest. See, see, but me, like, I like I was really fucking with it because like I because like I fuck with the flow and I fucked with like having to patiently wait for the drop that's coming, and like the builds can be like emotional and like heartfelt and just like make you just feel some some type of way. Like any deep house, like it has deep meaning to it. And if you enter a flow state, and if you're if you're and if you're in the vibe, you don't know what I'm talking about. But in most cases, like some have lyrics, some don't, but it just makes you feel something like whereas mainstream house, you just want to dance. Like, hey, sick drop. But with deep house, it's more like hey, this is just like Yeah, yeah.

Tom 28:16

Yeah. It was like a slower, like more meditative, it was like more meditative. Yeah, more meditative, but it's sick. Yeah, I could like work to like I could like sit down and like work at my laptop till deep house, like, or like um, you know, literally meditate to it or like do something like chill to it. But I don't know, like on the dance floor, I just was kind of like I was having a hard time like moving to it the right way, you know?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah. I mean I feel like you just need to be like you need to have you need to have it in you, you need to be able to understand it. I feel like if you see it in in the proper format, which wasn't last night, but like in in the proper way, yeah, but and if you're on the if you're in the right headspace for it too, then I feel like you would just understand it. I mean, kind of with all EEM, like whenever someone is like thinking about going to the first festival, they're not sure, it's like, oh, I kind of like this music, it's all right. Like, I'm not sure if I could vibe to it. But then when like 80% of people go to the first festival, they're like, holy shit, now I understand what this shit's like. But it's the same thing with deep with like any genre. If you just like open your mind to it and if you're in the right format, the right headspace, then you can easily get there and then just have an understanding for it.

Tom 29:26

Okay, tell me about like the other categories, like dub step, all of that. Okay, start to start listing them off and like tell me.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Deep house is a subordinate of just house. Yeah. House has many other sub like subcategories too. Okay. So okay, I don't know if I even want to this is gonna just it's gonna be a like a five-hour long podcast. That's fine. Talking about just genres. But okay, so tech house is kind of like deep house, which okay, so his set from last night was a mixture of deep and tech house. Okay. I I would say tech house is like deep house, except it's not as deep. Facts, my god. Say less.

Tom 30:05

Wait, say less.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Okay, so tech house, okay. I would say tech house is right in the middle between deep house and mainstream house. Because it has like the groove and like the fun nature of mainstream, yet the patience and flow of deep. Okay, okay, that's a good way to putting it. I like the word flow. As long as you keep saying flow when you describe stuff, I like oh. Yeah. And then okay, big room house is hardwell, just anthem. Put your fucking hands up. Da da da da da da. Like, that's a good thing. That that is big room. That is okay. Classic and that that wasn't a favor genre, which it still kind of is, actually. Kind of fucks, bro. Yeah, bro. It's just yeah, it's just energy. It's what you want at at a festival, but now everyone's more into bass and tech house. Well, okay, so that's big room, and then progressive house is kind of like it's like a shorter version of Deep House, except when the drop comes, it's more epic and just like it's uplifting house. So that that would be like Avici-ish, Swedish house mafia. Don't you worry, cha. So so it's like it's like big room energy, but it's more uplifting and like it it has like kind of corny lyrics to it too. So yeah, yeah. So so it's like that kind. It it it's like big room light. Okay. And um, okay, outside of house, I'll just switch to another genre. Big room light. And um if you want to go into Dove Step, so that's gotten a lot more popular. I feel like it reached its peak popularity in a radio sense back when Skirlix first popped off. But now in a live context, it's peaking. So right now, dovstep can be broken into rhythm, which is like just choppy, fast-paced, like wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, just like straight wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. Yeah, so it's like the same sound and like certain variations, but it's just like like straight up dovestep, just wah, I like like aggressive, like violent vertical chops.

Tom 32:24

Cool. I like that you should give some like vocal sample of like each genre. I'll remember it.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Riddle. So that's rhythm, and then there's brostep, which is scrillic style.

Tom 32:36

Wait, so bros step is a real like category? Yeah. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

So bros step is like scrillic style where he'll have like a lot of sounds being used throughout the drop, and they're like crazy, like they go from like one range to another range, and it's it's like more like free dov step. And then brittum is a mixture of brostep and rhythm. Oh. Which is what's like kind of popular now. Because you get like the sharp energy, just direct energy of the rhythm with the with the more free aspects with brosep into one. So it makes it just like heavy as fuck, but also like crazy. Can you give me an example? Dubstep drop versus like a brittom drop. Do you mean bro step respect? Like brrrrrp. Like give me a side. Well, actually, uh, Ray Volpe has a song called um Battle of the Bros. And so in each drop is its own sub genre of dovestep. So one is brosep, one is bridom, then one's rhythm. Oh battle of the bros. So I can I should show you that after. Okay. Kind of funny. But um so yeah, that so that's like the heavy side of dovestep, brosep, bridom, and rhythm. And then there's deep wubs. Deep Wubs would be LS Dream, which I asked you about the other day. I am yeah. So LS Dream, like so there's deep wubs, and then there's like freeform bass, which is like an even deeper version of the deep wubs. So that's like what blur is into. Blur is into like free form, like experimental base. That's like down the rabbit hole. Like what's the artist that he was? Tipper.

Tom 34:19

Tipper.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So I was like, but like he's his own, he's his own thing. That that's like experimental, but it's I don't even know. Like, that's it's I don't even know if that's even music, bro. I don't even know if that's music, bro. It's just like it just sounds like watery sounds.

Tom 34:39

Like honestly, do you know who Papadozio is? Yeah. I feel like that artist was like in their own lane of its own, where it's like it was like jam band mixed with like techno, mixed with like psychedelic trip artists. Like, I couldn't even put that band in a box if I wanted to, bro. I guess jam band would be the title, but like would be the overview, but like not so many other things. It was so many things, bro. It was a whole experience, bro.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

My dad, Papadozio. But yeah, so you can go deep and into the Wubs and be like Lur who's just into like the really experimental, like like just fucking like your mind's not even on this physical points type shit anymore.

Tom 35:21

I gotta we are listening to some tipper now. Now I'm my interest is peaked, bro. Like, I feel like, okay, isn't there like two big um like genres like in the biggest macro view of like electronic and dance? Like, is that fair to say that at the highest level, those are the two genres? What? Electronic music and dance music. Of what? What's the then there's subcategories to each of electronic dance music is the genre. Elect electronic dance music. No, but like house is like dance music and like dubstep is like electronic music. Okay. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, but like if you go into like Apple Music and Spotify, there will be a dance category, and then there would be like electronic category.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

I mean, I feel like dance is just mainstream EDM, and then electronic is all EDM. Okay. Yeah, like so dance is just mainstream EDM? Yeah. Okay. Pretty much.

Tom 36:14

I thought dance would be more like house.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Dance it dance it is like pop EDM. Okay. That makes sense. So yeah, just like mainstream house, shit like that.

Tom 36:24

What are the other like what are the other subgenres then that like we haven't discussed? There's a lot. Well, let's get it.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Okay. I don't have anything else to talk about. So drum and bass? Do you know anything about that? No. What really? I mean, I've heard the name. DMV? So who's an artist you might subfocus, maybe? I'm sure you've heard songs. Actually, the weekends, like he has a few songs that have a DMB format. It's like so it's like very fast, and there's and there's always an extra kick. Okay, it's like that. That kind of format. And that's getting a lot more popular in the US. It's pretty popular over in Europe, but it's starting to get a lot more traction here too. And that's kind of like in the bass category, too, because a lot of bass festivals have DMB stages. So that's pretty cool.

Tom 37:22

So my favorite subcategory is like Flume, Odessa, Pretty. Okay, sweat. That is Chill Wave. Chill Wave. That's my Chill Wave slash future bass. So like as time went on and like I started going to less shows, which I do want to go to shows again more. I like naturally gravitated away from the dub step and just like more towards the I but I I can always vibe with the ambient shit. Yeah, yeah. So I listened to like the new Odez album. I'm listening to that like a hundred times in a row. So it's actually really good. It's really good. It's so good. Flume, I still keep the tabs on him, although he's gotten experimental and weird. Yeah, really weird. I don't know. See, I commend him for like doing me too, yeah. All these things.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

I always respect it because it it's like it's in a pop, like he has a lot of pop vocalists, and like he's made it like likable for the mainstream. Yeah, it features a lot of weird sounds and like it's not like unconventional formatting.

Tom 38:18

The first album of his is actually maybe my favorite album of all time. Me too. I think that purple album, not the deluxe version, just purple albums just straight through that because we had never heard anything like that. And that to me is what created the genre of chill step. Yes, chill dubstep. It was like hip hop beats mixed with dubstep vibes, but chilled out in a way that we never and then that I think that album revolution. That whole album created a million subgenres from its own because then you get like future pop and like chill hits and like weird bass is like future vibes, yeah. A derivative.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I think Odessa's whole style is a derivative from Flume, like as well, like personally in its own way, but they're but they're very distinct from one another. Yeah, but like true, but they're also like similar vibes, vibes, yeah, like very different at the same time.

Tom 39:08

And I just kind of always wanted to make Flume to keep making like albums like that, and like that's why I like Odessa more at this point because Odeza did keep making albums just like that, and they sound great, they sound so good. But then like his next album, he experimented with like a couple pop hits, which was cool too. It was like, you know, the Tovlove hit single and like that. But then since then he's gotten so experimental, and I I respect it, but I'm also like, this isn't not the artist I fell in love with. Yeah, and like I respect that you're trying new stuff, but like I kind of just wish it's not as polished as like this other thing. There was like a flaw, like the purple album is like flawless. Like I just wish he would make like Odessa continues to make flawless projects. I hope he returns back to that.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Hopefully at Flume.

Tom 39:53

Yeah, because there was a point. If you asked me seven years ago, I'd be like, Flume is my favorite artist of all time, but that's he only had one album, you know. I'm saying, yeah, and now I'm just like, I don't think even though it's still my favorite album, I don't think I could say that. Yeah, I know. I think that's better than all three Odessa albums, but I'm like, Odessa, goat. He's my goat now. He's my new goat. They is he a they two people. Oh, okay. I thought he was like trans. But he's uh he's uh just two people. Yeah, it's a duo.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Okay.

Tom 40:25

Well, they are sick. Um but what are the what are they called?

SPEAKER_01 40:32

All the subgenres within that. I mean, there's not like there's just the overview of it being chill wave, but then future bass. And then their new album, Odeza's new album, has a lot of house, but it's like it's chill wave house. It's like it's like m it's melodic house almost. So that's like I mean they kind of created that too. There's an artist called Big Something, Big Gigantic, no funk.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I almost want to look this up. I'm sorry. Keep talking.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

But um Yeah, so I feel like that's probably the most outside of just mainstream house and dance EDM, that's like the most popular type of EDM too. Just anything chill, like Odessa Flume type. I think Big Wild. Big Wild, okay. Big Wild is kind of like alternative EDM. Really? Yeah, because he he has a live performance every time and he has real instrumentation in his songs.

Tom 41:38

Well, isn't that like Grizz has a sax? Like, isn't this a new, isn't that its own live instrumentation is uh gotta be a genre of of EDM too, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:47

I mean Grizz, I mean, now he like I told you earlier before this podcast, he's going more in the bass nector rally, but he's more like just making bangers and like a lot of bass hits. But yeah, back when he was, I mean, he still was on the sax live, but I feel like his core sound was just funk EDM.

Tom 42:03

Just funk EDM. Remember the floozies? Yeah, bro. I I don't know what happened to them. Tyler put me on of them back in the day. That to me, funky groovy shit, that's gotta be its own the funk, bro. It's just called funk, I'm pretty sure it's fun. But it's such a clusterfuck of like a genre because everyone does funky shit. Everyone does chill shit, everyone does house like you know what I'm saying? It all touches each other in a weird way. But but then again, it doesn't because then your one like manager was like, no, you gotta do EDL, you gotta do dubstep. So it matters, you know what I'm saying? I feel like once you get to a certain level of an artist, though, you can just start making it do whatever you want, yeah. You can mix in anything once you have, yeah. That would be so much fun, bro, just to be like fucking Hardwell or like someone at the top of the game. Dylan Francis or someone. Dylan Francis, bro. Fuck yeah. I'm saying you could do whatever Okay, you could do whatever you wanted, though. He could get any pop star on a song, he could, he could, he could test out any genre, like you know what I'm saying? Just the world as your oyster. Not you know, specifically him as be one.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah, but I mean I've seen a lot of artists do that, and that's why Hardwell went the route he did, because he said he just got sick of making the same stuff all the time and he wanted to evolve his sound, and then the intro to his album is like a three-minute audapel of him talking, and at the end he's like, now I'm gonna show you who I truly am. And then the first song starts right right after. That's kind of sick. Because like because he said that his that that whole album is is actually what he's been wanting to make the whole time. Oh like like that is actually his I gotta check this out.

Tom 43:41

Yeah, bro. Sick. See, that's why I feel like you should be encouraged to go techno for a couple months, you know what I'm saying, or like pursue it forever or do change your mind. Like, kind of sucks that someone was trying to like keep you in a box, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, but I mean he's also a newer manager and he just wants to have his shit like right. What I mean, it's good probably good advice too in a certain way, as far as like, yo, you want to do this right now and make money, like, but I as your friend and as just like in life, I feel like you should be pursuing whatever in that moment you're vibing and just pursue that thing hard as fuck because that's where your heart's telling you to go. And like this could branch out to some more general advice, but I just feel like in life, obviously you have your job and you can't just like stop doing your job immediately sometimes, you know. Like you get bills to pay and shit. But like, man, life works so much better when you do get the opportunities to just pursue that thing on a whim that like you're just like, you know what? Fuck it, I want to do this. Like, and you just go for it and like spend a whole weekend, you know, just going hard as fuck in so some direction, and then maybe you just don't even ever do that again. Like, I got super into puzzles for like a month, bro. I bring I had like a whole Instagram highlight reel of puzzles, bro. And I was like, puzzles, but like, you know what? Life is better. Like, now I don't do puzzles anymore, but like life is better when you're hyped as fuck about something. Yeah, I don't know. It just is, man.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and we already touched on that the first podcast a little bit. It's always like always having some kind of mission, always having a purpose that you're going after. But yeah, I mean, I still want to give it a real shot at some point and like see if I have it in me to produce and seeing because like I really just want to make my own music because I feel like I would since I'm so in touch with every genre, I like all like like actually all EDM. So I feel like I could create some pretty sick shit. But it's just a matter of having that fortitude in me to just lock down and do it. But right now, like I said, focuses the fitness, but I I really do like once I get solidified more, I will I want to actually give it a real shot because I've been saying for a long time that I've wanted to, so it's like I just need to at some point once the time's right.

Tom 45:52

The worlds need it combined, bro. You need to make about making music for my fitness shit. Yeah, you should be making play like I actually have some drive fitness playlists on Spotify. Not like Frank with the intro.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That too. Well, like, yeah, but just making like kind of simple, but like clean beats, not like full-on songs, but like beats just put in the background type shit. Yeah, yeah. Like that would be really cool because it's still my own touch.

Tom 46:20

Yeah, you know, no, also, um, so up until this point on TikTok, like a good way to go viral has been to like use someone else's sound. So like if my song goes viral, you can hop on it and stuff like that. And like recently, too, they say that like you you can you have a better chance of going viral with the original sound too, because it's kind of like other people can use it. Yeah, I think just as more people and more people use TikToks, like uh it's just they're trying to promote more and more of like the content creator, like independent guy, like not someone who like they don't want to promote people who are just like writing trends, basically. You know what I'm saying? Like they want people who are making original content, not just people who are like because you're not really adding anything to the platform if you're just like doing a trend. So I think that actual the type of content that you and me make, like original podcasts, original like fitness content, is actually gonna be better than someone who's just like on every trend uh in the long run. And that like the more that you are original, I think the better it's actually gonna be for you in the long run. So creating your own music and stuff will be good. You know what I'm saying? Also, like if you have a video with your original song there, like I think this is where your head was going at first. Like, people could take now, like, oh, he did a good job. Like, I'm gonna use that sound for my inspirational video too. And so maybe like if your songs are unique enough, like you can star waves, you know. Yes, sir. Damn. It's simple, it's simple. Making music for the fitness content. It's like it's part it because it falls under your fitness content umbrella, which is now your like main focal point, but it still lets you tap into like what you know, like and also being able to express other passions I have within the main focal.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's pretty sick.

Tom 48:16

It's important too because like one of the coolest things I feel like that you did yesterday was we were filming the the Muscle Beach content, and then they were playing Bad Bunny. Maybe we talked about this already, but Dan then we heard it at Muscle Beach, and then Dan put it on the video of him like promoting Muscle Beach, and therefore it's like we actually captured the energy and the sound of what it actually sounded like to be there because people were playing Bad Bunny there. So I just feel like it's it's so important that whatever you do play in the background to your fitness videos is like so significant and important, and like it just yeah, it creates a whole energy, you know what I'm saying? That and like the more you are of like the engineer, the the director, like the designer of your videos, the more you can design every aspect, the more of like an original, like exactly content creator you are.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

That's what I'm trying to find. I'm trying to find that balance and find like what like what type of content really inspires me and how I can be different from the rest. And I'm starting to figure it out, but I just want to create content that makes people feel something. And I've kind of like dabbled in just like emotional shit with like some kind of like very my like I want to have like minor motivation, just like shit that that's something over the top, like you can do it, like one more rep type shit, but just more like something sentimental with like like a chill background tune or like a chill eat EDM track that can like supplement just some like sentimental value to like just working out fitness and like seeing background shit. Like I just like that aesthetic because it just makes it feels like really real and raw, like just like a raw shit, not just a clip of like okay, here's my workout. Like there's so many workouts on the internet and shit that you can find. It's like let's put your own touch on something, it's just different. I mean, you can do that also just by talking to the camera, showing who you are to people and not just like having a song over the whole video. But I mean, that that's all I don't know. I just want to like find a certain style of editing and format for the for the videos going forward that is all in line with each other, that can inspire people and just I don't know, I want to like bring collective inspiration for people just to start fitness and to just be on this journey. And I feel like if I had my own music to supplement that, that would just like you said, like I would eventually find my own niche with within it. The more like I do it, the more I can express myself through the videos. So yeah, I mean I mean I've been doing it for a few weeks, so I've got a lot more time to figure out and then to just kind of test, see what works and what doesn't. And yes, sir. Just gotta keep at that joint.

Tom 51:12

Yo, so we didn't record a podcast between when we did poi to now. So, like, what did you think of Hidden Poi with me last night? We did yoga and poi, it was a lot of fun, basically. We got a good video of both of them. Yeah but yeah, you were surprisingly good at poi, so maybe talk a little bit about sick.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

I mean, I've so freshman year is when we all got poi, or like you got poi, Tyler got poi, and like you guys were like really into that, but I feel like Tyler really took it off because he got fire poi, he got the other bowls too, and like he's still actively doing it. And since that summer or the next summer after, I didn't really get a chance to practice with you guys because I didn't see you guys as often. We all kind of went like our own directions within the festival scene. And I would only practice it if I saw someone, like a random guy at a festival that had it, I was like, Oh shit, yo, and I try that for just like a song, and then I would do it like maybe once a year after that whole time period where where y'all did it all the time. So to be able to like actually get a full session in and like learn a few new moves is pretty crazy. So I haven't really had the opportunity to learn from someone directly like that. So that that was pretty cool. And like when you're into it, when you're in the flow flow, the flow. When you're into the flow, like you can just use you can pretty much put your vibe into the boy, and like you can match the bead, you can match the energy, and you can portray yourself out to the world through that, which is pretty sick. And it's a lot of fun, it's all very free. And we're gonna run it back tonight.

Tom 52:52

Yeah, it was cool because you knew a couple separated moves, and so like I was able to teach you a couple things too that helped you put them together. Because like once you know, like if you know like three moves, you can just like do those three moves, but if you know like seven or ten, then they can all then they can all move into the next one, and then you can just start free flowing. You know what I'm saying? You need probably five or six moves, so just free flow, you know? And so you knew like four or five, and like we taught you probably like eight by the end of the night, you know, nothing like a couple really easy ones, but like that all just put it together for you where now you can just kind of like have fun with it. Yeah. And once you can do that, once it opens up for you, it's of such a good way of experiencing music. So, like, say a new album comes out you really like, you know, when you're like, oh, I gotta listen to this album, especially you who's like uh into DJing or maybe just like creating like music for your fitness content, whatever it is, like you need to like pay attention to the music you listen to. Well, if you sit there like and you just like listen, sometimes you can like zone out, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes you might want to look at your phone, like sometimes you just get distracted. Like, you know, it's hard to kind of hard sometimes. But like with poi is like the best activity to like, okay, I'm I gotta pay attention because like I'm moving these to the beat, you know what I'm saying? But there's no I'm not there's no other thoughts getting in the way. Like that's what you're doing. Yeah, like it takes focus. Yeah, it just completely you're like immerses yourself into you're like a slave to the music, you know what I'm saying? You're like a fucking you're just like controlled by it almost, you know what I'm saying? You just have like you don't even have a choice, bro. You have to and it just like fully ha forces you to encompass like the energy of the like song. Like you could play country music, I would have to fucking find a way to swing, swing these to that, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't matter, like you're just there, you're just there with it. It's it's good for living in the present moment, too. It's very freeing, yeah. Yeah, I've I've found it deeply meditational because I haven't done it in years. All of a sudden I'm like doing it again, and I'm like, man, I love this shit, dude. Like what happened? This was like a way of regulating my mental health. I didn't even realize how like important this was to me and like how sad it was that I stopped doing this. Yeah, especially because it's so easy just to do it for like five minutes, like once a week or something, you know, like it's not even a commitment or anything. Like, I don't know why. I've just been ignoring it.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

It was like one of my biggest passions for so I feel like that just happens with so many people with whatever passion they have. Like it just eventually eventually lose touch with it. It's so weird. I'm trying to figure out like why. I mean, obviously work and just not having time, but it's like once you don't do it, like say you do something every day for a year, and if you go just a week without doing it, then it gets harder to get back into that state of just that same cycle of just like, yeah, like I'm doing this every day. And then like it gets more and more spaced out, and then the next thing you know, you're not doing it and you don't think about it because like you're you like gradually you like you stop doing it and then say, Oh shit.

Tom 55:55

Sometimes it gets sad too. Like for me personally, like uh my big one is soccer. Like I used to be soccer, it used to be the most important part of my life, basically. And you know, I would play five or six days a week, and now if I try to play soccer again, it's like I'm not playing at the same level. So it just kind of like makes me realize like the difference between where I was and where I am, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, damn, like I used to be a hundred times better than this. So it's like more fun to go learn a new activity, like basketball. I've never been good at basketball, so it's exciting. You know, it's like I don't know, and not to say like I don't ever want to play soccer again. I really do, I really do, but you know what I'm saying? It's when you take a long break from something that you were once super into, I don't know. It's sometimes harder, yeah, it's harder to start it back up.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Because I was really into skateboarding, yeah. You know, back early middle school, all the way through sophomore year, like right when I met you, actually, or like break when we became really good friends, is when I stopped skateboarding. Yeah, because I actually ironically skateboarding. Yeah, yeah. Not into skateboarding, but like up until that point, I was really into skateboarding. And I tried to pick it back up actually last year. Yeah. So I tried to, and I still had the muscle memory for a few tricks, but like when I first got back on the board, I like it took me probably a full like three hours to get my first kickflip back, and I was like, damn, bro. Like, because like I still had it and like I was close like almost every time I tried it, but like to still get the move mastered down, it took me like three hours just to get it back. And then like I went to the skate park in Jack's Beach, and everyone there was just so fucking good because all the kids there, they just grow up skating and like they don't stop too because like it's just the culture, so like so. I just felt like I couldn't really match that, and it wasn't as fun as it used to be because back in the day when I was skateboarding, like we would just that's how we got around, and it's also just how we had fun because like after school we would skate and just hit a few spots and skate back home. Like it's it's how we all got from one place to another and then just did fun shit throughout. But like now, it's like I can't have that same aspect or same vibe when I'm skateboarding. I think it's um like it's lost that appeal, so it's it's not as enjoyable to get back into it because that whole aspect is gone.

Tom 58:22

Skating is definitely a youthful activity for you. Yeah, it's something to do as a kid. Like, not to say it's lame to do as an adult, but I feel it's harder to stay in touch with that skating culture, like you were saying. Yeah, it's just different. Yo, surfing, I feel like you would really like surfing.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Yeah, I actually have Ren said. I have a friend that's been trying to get me to go out like so many times, and I just haven't had the opportunity to. So he but yeah, he I mean, I'm probably real soon, actually.

Tom 58:48

I love the west coast of Florida in every way more than the east coast, to be honest, except for the waves. The waves suck out there, and like I am I honestly like have never lived in a beach town where I could surf every day, but like if I did, I would surf like three days a week at least. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I would be a surfer. I have it in me. Like, I look in the mirror and I see a surfer, even though I've only surfed like 10 times. Like, but I'm like, I am well, I'm just a surfer, man. That's like who I am, bro. I just don't ever get the chance.

unknown 59:18

Yeah.

Tom 59:19

I rent a board here and there. Like my mom rented one when we were on vacation a couple months ago, and I rode one wave in one time, and I was like, all right, that was hard. Took me fucking two hours. So I'm not even like good, but I just like the idea. I think I like the idea of surfing more than I even like the active surf, you know?

SPEAKER_01 59:36

I mean, it's a whole ass vibe, bro. It's a whole vibe. Yeah, it's like there's like the skate bros and the surf bros, and like surf bros, I feel like are a more advanced form of skate bros. Like it's the next phase. Well, there's surf, there's snowboarding bros too.

Tom 59:51

And they're just like synonymous, all the surfing, but just but no, but it's like skate bros, then snowboarding bros, then the highest level surfing bros. They're the sickest bro. They're just the illest, dude. Illest. Because they're like one with Nate, they're like Aquaman out there, bro. They're just like swimming around like a it's just so like it just seems so chill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

So chill. I'm just a little worried about sharks though, because there was a shark attack in Jack's Beach like really two weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah, man. That one got his arm completely bit off.

Tom 1:00:20

I can't fuck with sharks like that, dude. I mean, I just assume that's a tits like you're way you're way more likely to die in a car crash than you are to get eaten by a shark. But still, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

Like, but when when there is a recent report of the shark attack, like five blocks away from where you live, it's like, oh shit. Yeah, that's kind of sus, bro. That's kind of sus.

Tom 1:00:39

So does someone die or get a leg shoot off? Just his arm fully chewed off. Bro, that would be rough. Bro, like, I can't even imagine. I mean, you would go into so much shock. What would really be rough too is not like the moment, it's like living the rest of your life with a phantom limb kind of like situations. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Like, that's what I was worried about, bro. Like, what's like I feel like inevitably bad shit is gonna happen to all of us. And it's like, it's just a matter of when and like what it's gonna be. It's it's scary, bro. It's like just the unknown of like like am I gonna get it like terminally ill, like within the next year or two, or am I gonna break a bone? It's gonna fuck up my whole fitness journey. Is yeah, is my dad gonna like go you know, like get get a stroke? You know what I mean? Like anything can happen that can just derail everything. And like, you know, up until this point, up until this point, I feel like I haven't gone through real trauma before. So I'm worried that when I get to that point, I'm just gonna not know how to handle it.

Tom 1:01:38

Yeah. No, completely, man. Um I think, first of all, with the fitness being the focal point of our lives, it's so scary. Like you have to think about things can go wrong. Things can go wrong in life. And like I could be paralyzed from the neck down, no, from the from the waist down, and I can still code um as a living. Like it would be, I would have to be basically brain dead for me not to be able to code. You know what I'm saying? But fitness, if like if I like mess up one arm or one leg, like I can't be that guy anymore. You know what I'm saying? And I've known people who were like that guy and they got injured and like now they're not, you know what I'm saying? Like, and it sucks, dude, and it's sad, and it's like it's a lot, a lot is riding on you and me not having any sicknesses or injuries in order to continue to to make content like we're making, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Scary. Yeah, I mean, and the thing about doing calisthenics is that you're kind of prone to injury, like that one guy was talking about. Yeah. How he's gotten injured a few times. But those are all minor injuries you can work through, but like even that, even a minor injury when you're doing shit like that, it is like very taxing because like it can translate to other exercises too, and like your foundation's fucked up if you can't do basic moves. So, but like even that's like could be tragic, even if it's like minor, but just imagine a major catastrophe in your life.

Tom 1:03:07

Like, it's like fuck, dude. Bro, and you were talking about like you haven't experienced enough traumatic shit. Like, I am right there with you, man. Like, I most people in my life have experienced more traumatic things than I have. And like well, I'm not just gonna go through my whole life not experiencing anything traumatic. Like, something is in the future for me, yeah, bad that it's just a matter of time, like, and it's just gonna suck. Like, I don't know. Like, maybe it's important to be in the moment. Maybe possible, maybe things I don't want to like speak anything wrong into existence, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm hoping and praying that I just have the best possible life ever, but it's something I think about and it's like something that's scary, bro. It's like, oh no, like and then there's death, which is the ultimate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

But some things seem worse to live with than death. But yeah, I feel like both of those notions, death and the fear, tragedy, if you have the right mindset, you can just channel that into making the most out of every moment and just not wasting any time because while you are healthy, while you do have the opportunity to do what you want and you take full advantage and just having that mindset until something goes wrong, if it does. So that's the way I've been trying to live.

Tom 1:04:21

Yeah, man. Specifically, like all four of my grandparents are still alive. And one of my grandparents is actually like very sick right now. But I interviewed all four of them while they were healthy. Um like that is one thing that I'm like it I feel like that's kind of an obvious thing, you know what I'm saying? Like you four grandparents all in their 80s, like that's something that you like when I say I have traumatic things on the way, the four of them obviously like are not gonna be around forever. That's something that like it's the obvious one. There's probably unobvious things coming for me too, you know what I'm saying? But that one I'm like, oh shit, like these these people are are some people I need to cherish the time with. So that's something that I did to do that. But how do we prepare for the non-obvious ones? I don't know. Like, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

I don't know. We'll just have to recalibrate and adapt when it happens.

Tom 1:05:16

But also, like take measurements to like live in safe areas and do things correctly, and like wear the seatbelt and non-drive. I don't want to, I feel like not the most interesting podcast conversation just to like rant about like things that you should be worried about. But like, yeah, man, safety is something as I get older, I just take so much more seriously. It's like kind of like why all of our parents are the way they are.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

Yeah, exactly. It's just like getting old, man. It's it's like every time I see my dad, the first thing he asks me is like, How's your health? Like, yeah, like like, are you safe? You know what I mean? Like, he's always worried about like safety, which like it's understandable, but it's like, I don't know, it's just funny to me.

Tom 1:05:55

We don't need to get too far into it, but we were just talking about how I got my license at 16 and how just like Immature we were at that time period, and it's like, damn, like it's so scary looking back sometimes on just like being and I'm like, whoa, like man, I would tell my younger self some strong words about safety and like just you know, um, I don't know, like being being cautious and caring about yourself enough. Yeah, we're here, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

We're here, thank god. Luckily though, hanging off people's cars, like well, I don't think you were really around for that. That was like me, Charlie. Yeah. Oh, wait. I think it might have been a couple times. But well, yeah, I mean just like crazy shit we did that like easily could have gone bad, but didn't. And it's funny because when you're that age, like you you feel like you are in a way grounded enough to like be like, nah, man, it like it's fine, even though uh objectively it's not, but like in your mind state, like you truly think it's fine when it's like completely radical shit, like from our perspective now. I don't know, for sure.

Tom 1:07:02

Yo, do you um how's your faith? Like, do you still believe in God or like what is your thought process? Are you atheist? Like, what do you think about it all? What do you think?

unknown 1:07:10

Sh.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

Sheeshi. I mean, you already know like my whole journey through that, but I'm how we talked about it on the podcast though? Um, probably not. What is your journey then? So growing up, my dad didn't really go to church much. He was always a believer, and he read me the Bible a couple times when I was younger, like five, six, seven. Just because like he's he's not an avid believer. Like he does believe just because he was he was born into it. So like he like he's not the type to question things. Like he doesn't have that like sense about him. So whatever's like brought into his life, whatever he's raised into, like that's just the way he is, and that's what he taught me. And he didn't but like again, he wasn't like immersed into the whole religion, so he didn't like teach me anything specific, but he would just read me the Bible like a few a few times a night. And then I would go to church like I think okay, I got baptized in like fifth grade, but we never went to a church like every Sunday. I think maybe with like other people that invited us a couple times, but yeah, it was never like ingrained into our lifestyle. It's just the overall overarching belief in God and in Jesus Christ was they call you did you go for Christmas and Easter?

Tom 1:08:30

Yeah, yeah. So creasers, yeah. So creatures, creatures. But yeah, there's like a stigma for like Christians of like the Christians that only go like on those couple nights, which whatever, like do you, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Like well, like we really, I mean, we only went a couple times, like in that context. I feel like well, I okay, well, that's the next phase, but okay, so throughout all of childhood, up until junior year, when Cole came back from that one Christian camp that he went to, up until that point, I was just like a Christian who didn't really question because I was also young. I was like, Yeah, like I believe in God. I believe Jesus died for our sins, yada yada. And then up until Cole came back from that camp is when he just completely like sat me down. He was like, Dan, this is how it works. You need to repent in order to go to heaven. There's no other way. You need to be a true disciple to Jesus. You've you need to try to help people, you need to influence people, you need to spread the gospel to people. And there's no other way to go to heaven unless you fully repent and devote your life to God essentially is was his whole path and what he and like I just got brainwashed by him because I was young, naive. I couldn't really think for myself. And like, since I already believed in it, and the way he was like convicting me, it just sounded so real because I was so young and like I just fed into it. And like I've always been a good person at heart, so it didn't feel too unnatural for me to like want to go about that mission. And then for that whole year, throughout the whole school year, we would go on solo missions out to wherever and just try to like spread the gospel on people. We would we would have these like little pamphlets that we would hand to people, we would go to homeless people on the street, pray for them. We would go into stores, try to talk to people and just spread the gospel.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Like I forgot about all of this, bro. This is a random side story, dude. You go through this moment, dude.

Tom 1:10:35

I forgot, bro. I totally forgot. And that's when we weren't as tight that year then. Yeah, we were tight the year before and then the year after, right? Yeah, yeah. That was the one. But we were super tight the year before and super tight the year after. But then this year, I was like, I don't want to do this, bro. I remember you guys would ask me too, like, because I was Christian too, man. I I'm I still am, but I was like, yeah, like I'm Christian, but I don't want to like I'm not trying to go around and talk to homeless people like that right now, man. I'm just trying to enjoy my uh high school experience and like fuck around.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

And yeah, so me and him started going to church, and he brought me to a few churches that were like deep churches, like they like we would have like prayer circles and speaking tongues. Yeah. And there was they believe in healing powers and stuff. Yeah, no, yeah. They're like they had a healing session. Did you ever experience anything? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm about to tell you right now. Okay. So they had a healing session on on me, and they had this like so they had like 12 people like all with their hands on me, like in the middle. And like and then they had this one person. Oh they had this one person that that was doing like a drawing at as they were doing it. And she drew that this way. So so like the outcome of that was they they had so the artist had a drawing of like a furnace that's going through. Like, there's a certain term for it, but it's like like you're like you go through a hardship and then eventually at the end you become polished. It okay, cleanse. Yeah, yeah. But there's a certain like device that does this in the real world that illustrated that that she drew. Okay. I forgot what it's called. Okay, he drew that, and I think I still have it somewhere actually. V VP. Yeah, I still have it somewhere. And they're saying how like my faith is gonna be challenged throughout my whole life, but then at the end, I'm gonna come back or some shit like that. Oh what the fuck? Do you believe it? No.

Tom 1:12:46

Bro, I've always low-key thought that, bro. It was actually a recurring thought more when I was younger, but I was just kind of like, I just kind of want to bel like not take it serious, and then when I'm older, take it serious. Like, I like come on, that thought comes about because you're like, well, I just have to like I just have to like make good with God before I go. I mean, obviously you shouldn't think that way, but like I was a young kid, you know what I'm saying? But like I kind of I've like especially when I was younger, I would think like that. I would just be like, um, I'll just be religious later. Yeah, and like as I get older, I do become more religious too. It's kind of the plans kind of kind of happens. I feel like a little bit maybe by the time I mean by the time you're old, you're scared too about going to hell more. I mean, who knows? Like what you think. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

So well, yeah. So after that, it it was right before prom actually is when I got out of that because I started to qu like that's when I actually became like more aware. And I started, and like the more I learned in science class, and the more I did research, I was like, dude, this just makes no fucking sense. Like, like nothing about this makes sense. I was like, religion makes sense from a human point of view that we're trying to explain what we don't understand. There's no concrete evidence for anything that is written in this text and for this whole system to believe in. And I was like, the whole concept of heaven and hell is so far-fetched and sounds so fucking that like I can't even so, like, I was getting those thoughts that like, dude, I just can't. There's so many religions, also. Why am I selecting this one to be the true one? Like, you know, and so like I was just like, okay, bro, like this just doesn't make sense and it's not how I want to live. Because then I was just like, okay, bro, like, I'm just not, it's not in me to be living this much of a strict life that I'm not fully certain about. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna like stop. So I like I didn't even like phase out of it. I just stopped. Like, I just had one day I questioned a lot, and it all just didn't just I had so much doubt. I was like, dude, that this is just so dumb. Yeah. Like, and then that's when I got back into my lit boy phase.

Tom 1:14:47

Hey, I would yeah, I would say that I want to believe, and I just am always struggling with my face, like con constantly struggling, but always like I don't give up on it either. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think there's a term like wrestling with God, you know what I'm saying? That's I like I feel like the true encompassment of like being uh religious or like you know, the best person you can be is like always questioning it too. Like, and like, you know, like not just accepting, like, you know, you're saying like people that just accept it because their parents gave it to them. It's like, no, like I I always question that shit. And one thing I always question, and I still do to this day, is like the concept of hell. I don't know if I just I don't buy it. I just don't buy it. I just don't think an all-loving God would just burn us for eternity. Like, you know what I'm saying? I just don't know if I believe in hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:32

Yeah, I mean, I don't believe, I mean, it's just really like when we're headed into this kind of category, bro. It's like so hard because any any theory, any idea you have, like it has no basis. I mean, like you hear stories, you hear near death experiences from people, but it's like there there's just no way to even fathom or grasp what's gonna happen.

Tom 1:15:55

And yeah, that's why I think it's a very slight difference between between being like, I believe in God, I believe I'm going to heaven, I believe I'm going to hell. That's what I think. But we're talking about things that no one fucking knows, and I hate it when that that part is not acknowledged. What you just acknowledge. Where someone's like, no, there is a God, there is a heaven, there is a hell. It's like, what the fuck are you saying? Like, there is an Easter bunny, there is a Santa Claus, like these are all things you told me at one point in time. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like the Santa was as real to me as Jesus and God were, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, it's my point, is it's just like we can all believe in Santa. He's real, like as like a fucking archetype, and he, you know what I'm saying? But like, like, don't don't tell me so so confidently of like the afterlife because how exactly how I go how did any human ever know? Like, I don't care if you read it in a book, like it's like it's just I believe it too, but like can we just acknowledge that we're believing in something and it's not a fact that like science is a fact, yeah, you know? And it's just that slight difference, I feel like makes the world of a difference when you talk about concepts like the afterlife and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

But I feel like no matter how you look at it, it nothing makes sense. Like, no, where did matter come from? God, where did God come like what created God? Like what is the origin of all origins, but what created that origin? So none of like energy, matter is like physical. Like you can touch, like it's like it it's fucking there, but how like what the fuck? Like it's there, but has it always been there? Like what is the what is no fucking sense? What's outside the simulation? You know what I'm saying? Because even if it is a simulation, what created the simulation?

Tom 1:17:40

Like what yeah, like it always goes back to that same question, so it doesn't make any fucking sense and it's like uh existential crisis type shit because there is no objective way to look at it, and and since everyone it's like it's in human nature, I think we're the only species that understands the concept of time, which means we're the only one that understands the concept of death, which means our burden as humans is knowing that we're gonna die. Every single human on this planet is faced with the same problem that you will die. Like other animals don't feel that. So, like, religion provides that answer. So it's like so manipulative. It's like so like you're literally like taking advantage of the fact that this person doesn't know what's gonna happen after they die, and you're giving them an answer. And like even if the answer's right, I think my problem with religion as well is like there is so much power in being able to manipulate the masses, and like there's so much there's so much corruption that can occur. I mean, we were talking about priests, you know, saying and just the corrupt stuff that happens there. We don't need to go into that, but religion provides an outlet for manipulation, corruption, and like just um division too. Yeah, a lot, a lot of issues. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:06

But yeah, I just always think back to that concept of like where did everything originate from and just being so grateful to be a sentient, conscious, humanoid on this planet that can fucking comprehend concepts, even if other species potentially out there can to a high greater capacity. The fact that we can even have free thinking and be able to experience shit like festivals and being here at South Beach. We're just like it's a crazy time to be alive, and I feel like I almost don't deserve to be alive at this time because of how fucking how amazing it is. Like when you really go go deep into it and just think about like how convenient everything is, how acceptable everything is, how next level like everything that you can experience can be. Whereas being a human at any point in time is pretty sick. I mean, at any point in time. But like generally speaking, just being able to have free free thought and to like contemplate is crazy. But just even life in in in in of itself is crazy. And the fact that anything exists is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that first question.

Tom 1:20:18

It's more likely that nothing would ever exist than for anything to exist.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

Exactly. So it's like what I'd say to just have gratitude towards it and not really try to understand it, but just be like, okay, I don't like I don't know what the fuck is going on right now, but I'm here for it.

Tom 1:20:33

Bro, gratitude is like my new favorite thing starting of like a year or two ago, and like it still is because it's such like a life hack. Every time someone wants to talk about it on the podcast, I'm like, let's go. Because it's not something that you talk about once and set down. You know what I'm saying? It's not something you learn about. Like, gratitude is like um something you rehearse. It's like, it's like uh meditation or something, or like brushing your teeth. It's something you do every day, like and it's a practice and it's like a habit, and it's like, but it's a way of thinking. And so, like every time someone wants to talk about it on the podcast, I lean into it and I like have a whole combo about it because think about it, for the listener, it's like a podcast is kind of like training wheels for them. Like it's kind of like you're kind of allowing someone to think for you. And so whenever we hit on gratitude, it makes them grateful and them think about gratitude. Like everyone has something to be grateful for. Everyone, but it's it's not just like it sometimes when I talk about easy topics, everyone understands everyone understands like the topic of gratitude. So it's like some things are not worth talking about on every episode, but this one, it's just like it's worth repeating, it's worth building it in because it's like never a waste of a moment to like focus on gratitude. Like it's it always enhances every it'll raise everyone's vibration. You, me, everyone that's listening. If you and me talk about like like something very specific, like software, um, uh software development, and the listener doesn't need to know that specifically, it's not gonna raise their vibration. You know what I'm saying? It's just not universal enough for everyone to care about it. But like when I'm trying to like have a universal appeal just so that any listener will like uh be like like like I said, have their vibration raised from this conversation. Like, gratitude, I feel like is maybe the most universal concept. I think so too. It could be even more universal than love because some people are heartbroken and not in love. Although sometimes absence of love is a form of love in its own. But like maybe pain is universal, but like I I feel like gratitude's a better universal topic for people to listen to. Like you get more out of it by being reminded of it than you do about pain or love.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

I feel like some people haven't experienced true love. That's true. But people can always tap into gratefulness. Yeah. And I mean, you just like all it takes is just looking at what you have. Like you can be grateful for this microphone right here. The fact that people can hear us from miles away and can still get insight from our conversation, just be grateful for that. Or say someone is in poverty, but still being grateful that they have access to at least some water, like even though it could be better, but still being grateful just to be alive, like as simple as that.

Tom 1:23:21

But yeah, I mean, but like the the reason too, it's such a hack is because like this is might just be me seeing connections with things that are there, but like for instance, when I was working at Oracle, like I did not like my job, and I was like, man, I don't really like this job. Like, I wish I had a different job, basically. And I'd already applied for Ionic and I didn't get it, and then I went to work at Oracle, so it was kind of like the second prize or whatever. But like I remember at one point I had a mental switch at Oracle, and I was like, you know what? Like, no, I am grateful for this job. I'm happy I have this job. Like, you know, I need to commit to this. Like, I'm I need to try hard. I need to learn. Like, I really need to just like be like grateful for every moment that I'm working at this job. Like it pays the bills, like, you know what I'm saying? Like it it's it's allowing me to live a certain lifestyle, it's work, you know, and I just really just just like had a change in mindset how grateful I was for that job. Even though you didn't like it, even though I didn't like it. And then boom, then I get the job. Then out of the blue, Iana calls me and the job I really wanted falls right into my lap. You know what I'm saying? And it and I always wanted to be grateful for the Oracle job, but it wasn't until I really like like mastered gratitude towards it that life was like bing, you gotta move on to the next round. You know what I'm saying? You did it, you passed the test, the whatever. And I, you know, I don't really know. It's another topic I want to talk about, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:47

Okay, bring it up. If you think things happen for a reason, or if the universe works in your favor, or if there's an ultimate path for you know what I mean, or if there's no free will at all. Like, where do you fall in line? Oh, that's a you're asking me? Yeah, yeah. So, like, I'm so I'm asking you, like, as opposed to fate and like the universe has a plan for you versus there is no free will, everything in is in order, like Yeah.

Tom 1:25:14

So what I would say it's a really complicated answer because I've thought about this a lot, uh, to be honest. Wait, wait, wait, wait, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:21

I I didn't say that right. So either everything is laid out for you and like there is a path that you have to follow, or there is free will.

Tom 1:25:33

Wait. I would say this is what I truly believe. I believe in the multiverse theory and that there is infinite possibility of infinite di dimensions going on simultaneously, and that you essentially things like gratitude, anything you do, but that would be a powerful like um example, can switch your timeline. You know what I'm saying? So, right now, from this point forward, there's like the best possible timeline for you, the worst possible timeline for you, and like everything in between. You know what I'm saying? And I think that the the younger you are, obviously, the more timelines there are, because like if you're one year old, your life can go any direction. And you and me, like we're in our late 20s, that has closed like the the amount of timelines is like smaller now, you know what I'm saying? And so I think we have free will, but also there's only a like a there's only a set amount of paths that we can move forward, and that's still like hundreds of thousands, like in millions, you know what I'm saying? Uh because there's an infinite when you're zero years old, you know what I'm saying? Possibilities. So in some ways, you are destined like for a certain path, you know what I'm saying? But if you are like if your vibration is high enough and you are like conscious enough about like directing yourself, you can jump into higher time like higher um you can jump, you can move yourself into like a different dimension. Advantageous path. Yeah, the the dimension, yeah, yeah, the path forward that you want to go. You know what I'm saying? The higher you are vibrationally, the more likely it is that you'll fall into the right path and like you'll or the one you want to be on. Yeah, you can choose. Maybe you want to have a shitty life, I don't know. But so is there free will? Yes, but you have to play within the destinies that are there. Like, so in some ways it's set in stone because all of those infinite timelines have happened, so it is set in stone. You know what I'm saying? It is like you don't have free will, but you there are things you can do to experience one of the timelines. Because like I think that Dan Irwin has experienced every timeline. Like, there's some version of you that has done everything that you could possibly have done. So therefore, it's just about which one do you want to write? It's like a r it's like a Movie or a ride, you have to like ride along the one you want to this time, like in this life, you know what I'm saying? And it doesn't matter because you'll get probably reincarnated and you'll do all of them, you know what I'm saying? So you don't really have an option in the sense of like there is no free will, you have to experience every uh timeline at some point. But what do you want to do right now in this life? There is somewhat of a free will in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:26

Does that make any sense? To a degree, yes, but what but what is your like okay? So we're just talking about theorizing about God and shit, but like how like what is the basis of this theory? Like you seem very confident telling it, and you were just saying how you know like when people say, like, this isn't how it works. Yeah.

Tom 1:28:43

Oh, yeah, but this is my theory. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So let me preface it with saying, like, like, this is the way I think um intuitively, and just based on what everything we know at this point, this is kind of what I feel like is a strong possibility, but I don't know. I'm just making this up. I'm I'm obviously making this up, and I don't know if there is a multiverse. I don't know if life after but like I was asking if like the basis But you asked for my like theory.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like is the basis anything that you've heard from other people, or is it all just within you?

Tom 1:29:14

Like, well, yeah, I yeah, it's like I it's probably influenced by elements. Influenced by everything. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm and I'm another thing too is like I'm constantly updating my schema, you know what I'm saying? So as new science comes out and we think that there's a multi multi-dimensions and a multiverse, as especially the aliens, too. I've had a lot of theories that came up because we're starting to recognize aliens are real. I'm constantly updating, and in fact, I become less religious since we've thought aliens are real. It's like a natural thing to think about, you know what I'm saying? Like, really, okay, we're not the center of the fucking universe. Like, there's aliens out there, like less likely that like, you know, there's a heaven and hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:50

But why but why would that mean that God or that the concept of God would be less likely if there's other people? No, but the Christian religion in the concept of, yeah. I still think there's a God. Christianity, yeah, yeah. But I feel like people assume that it's based off that religion only, because that teaches that we are the center and that so but I think that's a flawed way to see God.

Tom 1:30:13

Because I think universe, I think in the if you look in the Christian Bible, there's a bunch of um stories of angels. I think now there's explanations for that. Those were aliens. That's you know what I'm saying? That's why I lose faith in some of like the Christian like crazy. Some of our histories of our religious stories are like, I think, alien interpretations now that aliens are a thing. Like now that the and we talked about this off the podcast, but the government has like announced that there's flying saucers that like roam around our planet, that they don't fucking know what they are. That's what our government is now finally officially saying. So this is something that now I'm updating my schema of like, hmm, I wonder, you know, all these things get updated all the time. So I don't ever know. But my my what I think based on like all the inputs, right, from other people's theories and stuff, is that more than likely there is a soul energy within us. And when you die, that part of you gets returned to like the global consciousness. So right now, you are God putting a piece of God into like flesh, like a human, and you're a piece of God, and that when you die, that piece of God like gets re like um added back to like the global consciousness. So you're not really yourself. And then I think that there's an ego, and that ego gets reincarnated over and over and over and over again, and you live the same life over and over and over again. And every time you're born is Dan Irwin in the same circumstances, except for based on whatever you decide that next round, you can go like you can um live in any of the multiverses, right? Like, like I was saying, based on what you learn in this life, you can make different decisions next life because it's not just the same thing. You wouldn't be conscious of it, no. But time is relative. So, like the idea of like a third-dimensional being, like Dan Irwin, the third-dimensional being, if you were God that's like a fourth-dimensional being, you would just be like in a loop like that. You know what I'm saying? You'd just be stuck in this like little thing. He could see from the beginning to the end, you know what I'm saying, like uh like the whole thing, you know what I'm saying, of your whole life. But if you were like a fifth-dimensional being and you could see Dan Irwin in all the different dimensions at the same time, you know what I'm saying? Then you would be like not just a third dimension or a fourth dimension in time, you'd also be existing in all of your potential timelines at once. So part of you, your ego, I think gets reincarnated and it's just like on the loop going through different scenarios of how your life could have played out. And that's how sometimes we like get images and signals, like you ever get deja vu and something. Well, maybe you like made that decision, you know, twice. And I I don't think that like our path is set in stone. I think that like like our spirit probably like learns over time, and maybe we're doing better and better each life. You know what I'm saying? And this, like, I might not make the gym and then I might die and I might get bored again, and then next life I'll maybe I'll get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, but I think that you like are here for a reason, and I don't think I don't think it always just like fucking it ends when life ends. Like you might have to start over, you know. Hmm. But I don't know, these are I don't fucking know what I'm talking. Obviously, I don't know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:28

Anything related to this is just all subjective. But you can't, I mean, but but it it's the most fascinating shits you talk about at the same time. So that's what I think, man. Yeah these are my theories. These are so for me, I don't know if you rule out the multiverse. I think that and I think there is evidence or some some type of evidence, not not concrete, but empirical evidence of it existing, or I'm not even sure, but I'm not ruling that out, but I think within this plane, within this life, there is no free will. I would I I um think that's a good theory too.

Tom 1:34:02

I think everything's a chain reaction. Because if you think about it, nature versus nurture, you're born already with like um your uh genes, your genetics, you know, like you're half your mom, half your dad, like the you know, you're either gonna be white or black or Hispanic or you're gonna be tall or short. There's so many aspects of you that are already decided. And then you have nurture, like you're you're when you you're born, you're like a blueprint, and your parents raise you and they they basically tell you things, and like you become like they basically program you like a goddamn, you know, like like program, and they say, Hey, care about this, don't care about that, do this, do that. And in some ways you revolt, but in some ways you you have to revolt. Yeah, so like you have to kind of revolt against what they told you as a teenager and then find a happy medium as you get older, but like, do you really get to choose that? Do you really get to choose? Like, cause you know, someone who was born in a different country than us really didn't even have the same opportunities to think the way that we do. So do we really get an option to be the way we are? Like, I don't know, bro. Like, my parents met like at a gym. Like, sometimes I think that it's destiny, you know what I'm saying? Like, sometimes I think that like the the my dreams, my goals were all kind of laid out, and like I just kind of absorbed what my parents thought were cool. Like my mom liked business, my dad liked sci-fi stuff. They both kind of like fitness a little bit. Like, I just, you know, I was like, I'll do this with my life. And I just became like, like, it was a program and they put in the variables and they output it was me, you know what I'm saying? And like I didn't really decide. Like if we were a spirit right before we got reincarnated into this world, and they said, Who do you want to be? And you said, I want to be Dan Irwin, a white guy in Northern Virginia. Like, then you'd show, but I did you say that? No. Did anyone ask you right before you got born what you want to be? Like, no. So, like, I don't really know how much free will we do have.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:00

Yeah. But I kind of look at it at more of a micro level. Like, everything that every part of or all stimuli causes a reaction in your brain. And like the way you perceive it is based on factors as you're growing up, and like every experience you have builds you more and more into your own character. But everything, just like the way you're sitting right now, the way like your whole posture is like it has a subconscious effect on my brain, which affects the way I might talk to you. That's why my vibe can be a lot different when I talk to you versus someone else. For yeah, just like from a more micro level and seeing it that way, just like everything that you process, all stimuli, like you don't really have an option. Like, you if you're on the fence about making a choice, like you really were always gonna choose that one choice because that because your brain goes through these loops, and either subconsciously or actually consciously, you will make a choice, and like you will do what your brain wants you to do, even if you think you have the illusion of choice, like you are always gonna do that. But not even applying to us being humans, even like way back from the dawn of time. I think everything has just been a chain, like atoms combining and creating elements which form something, you know, like everything just is a chain reaction from one to the next and the next, and then that always and that carries over to us being yeah, actual people that can think it's the same same concepts, but within our brain too. Yeah, I don't know. I just think like everything just goes in a line and for sure.

Tom 1:37:38

I mean, every since the dawn of time, it's been increased complexity, right? So like galaxies and like stars are really cool, but they're not complex, they're just big balls of fire in the sky. There's like one big like source of fucking energy, right? And then like as you get planets forming with atmospheres and like um and like like chemist chemistry starts, and then biology starts, and then from biology, like could form psychology, and then from their sociology, and then from societies, we are now putting together like artificial intelligent, like big like micro like like cyborg organisms of like people and computers and shit like that. It's like I just got more like from early physics all the way through all the sciences to like now like AI, it's like increased complexity, you know what I'm saying? And we're just on a path towards that direction, you know? But also, like you were saying I think you're talking about like you get a stimulus and you act a certain way and you're reacting and you can't ever be proactive.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:38

I think there are ways of being proactive which there's like it's like you you are, but it was you were always gonna think that way. So okay, here's how I can be more proactive. Like that was always gonna happen. Yes. Like, you know what I mean?

Tom 1:38:54

I yeah, I d I know that that that mindset too, but something it reminded me of was like in psychology, they say you have like your emotional side and your logical side, and we think that we follow our logical side, but we really follow our emotions, you know what I'm saying? So everything actually is an emotional response, and then secondary, there's a logical response that makes us explain, like like you were saying, like I might just decide to pick up this can and take a drink, you know what I'm saying? And I and then in my head, I might go, I was thirsty, you know what I'm saying? But it wasn't thirst that made me pick up the drink, it was an emotional response in me that like emotionally wanted that drink. And everything we do is actually emotional, and then our logical brain follows it around and makes up a story for why we did that. And we're just like, the way we interpret it is through the logical side. So we see ourselves as like the story of what we do, but it's really just a chain of emotions. And I think that if you understand that, then and you can tell your if you can talk to that side of your brain, then I think you get free will back. You know what I'm saying? And I think if you don't know how to do that, then you don't have free will, you know what I'm saying? So for instance, like you could tell yourself, hey, go to the gym, it'll it you'll lose weight, you know, people will like you more, you'll make money from your your your Instagram account, but that's not how your emotional brain thinks. So if you tell yourself, hey, you should go to the gym tomorrow, it'll feel so good, man. Like, just think about how it would feel to have that pump. It'll feel good. And like then you're like, yeah, and then you and you go do it. You know what I'm saying? Like, and you just kind of programmed yourself and like you didn't really have free will until you did that, because so many people will be like, yo, I should go to the gym, I should lose 10 pounds, it'll be so good for that wedding or like whatever. And then like they just don't do it, you know what I'm saying? And and those people, I don't think they have free will in that sense, in that moment, you know what I'm saying? Because they wanted to do something and they didn't do it. But if you can you can hack in to program yourself, you know what I'm saying? That to me is having free will. And that's a lot of what this podcast is, and what everything I'm doing is like the drive program, bro. It's like I believe that these conversations can program someone's mind, you know what I'm saying, in a way that gives them access to program themselves, like, you know, and that my app is another tool to like trick you into enjoying exercise. Like, let's let's tie it into video games in a way where like maybe you wouldn't have worked out and now and and now you have a little bit more of free will, like you have a little bit more of uh you can direct your your outcome a little bit better, you know? So I do have to believe in free will for all of that to like to like birds on cold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:42

But I also I get your I get the thought of like, yeah, well nope, nope, it's like but again, that's also just a theory that has no basis. Like, yeah. I mean, I think it's the most logical way to think about it, but that's my emotional side. So like what you're talking about, like I'm just trying to understand how I'm thinking about it, but sounds logical on paper, but is it really? You know, it's like and like what if the way we think is objectively like wrong? I mean, well, I mean, I guess from physics and from a scientific point of view, what we have established as fact is facts. But like, what if I mean going to like politically and shit, we're not gonna get into that, but like how like it feels objective that certain things shouldn't happen and should happen yet. Like a majority of people, like how we're talking to the guy in the Uber on the way to the club about how most people just fall into the nine to five and don't really question it and don't go out of their comfort zone, like and work and like live for the weekends, whereas like that's the standard and that's what people do. Yet objectively it makes so much more sense to not live to work, but work to live, and like no one does it though. So, but like could that be applied to like generally do we as a species just go about life the wrong way, or do we process it in like incorrectly? Or like I mean, especially now with the influence of technology and like so many people's opinions infiltrating, it's like has us as a species collectively like swayed from where we were like a few hundred thousand or a few hundred years ago or like a few thousand years ago. So were were they making like objectively better life choices than we are today and like how they process everything?

Tom 1:43:28

So I would say yes, like they like it's very obvious actually that human beings are not living life the best way, right? Because we always say this bullshit to each other, live in the moment. You know what I'm saying? Every other animal on this planet is in the moment, they're living in the moment and come 100% in the moment. Why? Like it's that it goes back to like the knowledge of death and and the understanding of time. Like, this is our burden to bear. Like, because of that, human beings don't like we evolved in some weird, it's like a it we're in some ways we're like deformed. We're like we're like the only one that's like fucked up and like not quite in reality, you know what I'm saying? Because every other fucking every other animal is just there, like there's they're saying dolphins are just as smart as ups. Like they might like dolphins probably have it figured out better than us because they're just swimming around and just having fun, like they're just chilling and like overcomplicate shit. Yeah, we're we overcomplicate shit. But the thing is, I would say is like human beings and especially specifically the capitalistic society that we live in is productive. You know what I'm saying? So like human beings are like actually gonna make it to Mars, and we're actually gonna like like invent crazy shit, and we're gonna like, you know, maybe like we could invent something that stops the sun from blowing up, you know, eventually, you know, we harness the power of the sun and do something and save all the animals on the planet because we're so fucking smart. We're the most productive animal that's ever existed, but I think that there is something naturally very wrong with being human as far as nature goes, and as far as like specifically the Western culture that we live in, where it's like shamans that live in the fucking jungle probably are are more in touch with like like an a way someone should naturally be living than someone in New York fucking city. Like you know, you know, like it's just there is something wrong there.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:26

Do you know if there's any data on like if we were if we are smarter now than we were before? Because I mean, obviously technologically we just went skyrocket just straight up, like very, very, very rapidly. So it's like, was that a reflection of us being smarter than before? Or was it just like everything fell into place at the right time? Because I mean, have we really gained that much intelligence as a species in the last like 500 years? Like, I don't no, I can't, I don't really think I I feel like people wind up in smarter back then. But it's like the more but the more shit that's invented and the more that you can create new things with the previous inventions, it's just kind of like Yeah.

Tom 1:46:10

No, I think uh for for human beings being more intelligent, um, I think that that take that for the evolution on that takes way longer than like our societies. So like 2,000 years, like the beginning of this like era, epoch, whatever. No. There's no way our brains developed anymore. In fact, probably our brains like haven't developed in like 10,000 years, you know what I'm saying? Or more. Like, so like the they say like the early like cave people, like they were just as smart as we were. They just didn't have as sophisticated of a life as us. Like now we have better access to data and stuff like that. Um so in a way, like, yeah, we're we're kind of like cyborgs now. We have access to the internet, but our brains, like we're we're getting like technological updates, but our the software that runs our brains, the exact same as a caveman, I think. That's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:02

Maybe slightly like slightly just compounds, like the more shit that we create, like and it just branches off and it gets quicker and quicker.

Tom 1:47:12

I think the last update we really got was when we uh embedd fire. So like something like fire will allow us to cook food and it will give us a whole different and that's a nutrition upgrade, and I think that probably has a brain upgrade too. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But something happened before that that we we went through like a lot of brain upgrades, and this ties into the alien theory. So, like, there was a point in time where like monkeys' brains like doubled in a very short amount of time, and we don't understand what happened there, and like now we're humans, basically. And like some people believe that like aliens actually came down and like enhanced uh or like messed with our DNA, like that our DNA has been tampered with by like aliens or or some more intelligent being, which is kind of conspiratorial, and like, like, yeah, there's no evidence there, just kind of like there's no evidence of real the Bible or you know, like God's existence. But like, so I'm not I'm saying that with a grain of salt, but like how would we know? It's completely possible that a more intelligent species found some apes and fucking jacked them up on some some brain steroids, and like that's why we are the way we are. But I don't think that we have increased that much more. Also, this reminds me, we both read the same book, Sapiens, and I feel like we're kind of hitting on some of those topics. I'm I'm like halfway to Okay. Well, this is from the beginning of the book, which is um you were talking about has life gotten better? Has life gotten better for us? Remember in that book, they said once we started creating farms and stuff, life did not went downhill. Yeah, like life actually did not get better. So, like you naturally assume that like um when humans started creating societies and things like that, like, oh, life was better once we went from hunter-gatherers to farming to like actual societies, but like, no, it only got better for the kings and for like the the the 1%, the 10% at the top kind of vibe, because for the most part, like hunter-gatherer societies were more balanced, like people were happier there, and like they didn't have a need for anything else, like that's all yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:15

They they just went out to hunt for food and just spend time together. Yeah, it kind of didn't have any other any other yearning for anything else.

Tom 1:49:24

And I'm pretty sure they only had to spend like 25 hours like a week like like hunting and gathering their food. I think that's that's what the author said.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:31

Yeah, they they spent like 25 hours a week hunting, whereas agricultural societies was like almost double that.

Tom 1:49:38

Yeah, and then the the poverty like started up and like people like people malnutrition and people like got got by with less and like they were kind of um yeah, I I don't know exactly why he said too, but like basically it was not an improvement for most people. It was actually a downgrade, but it was just um it was just uh more efficient. It was, it was, it was better for the society overall, but like an improvement for a society does not mean improvements for individuals. So and I feel like that same like idea has probably progressed at different times throughout our society where like society has steadily gotten better from the dawn of time till now. Like society is so great, but like life for the individual has not always gotten better. You know what I'm saying? And yes, we live a more comfortable life right now, but I don't think the human equal good though. I don't think human beings are anywhere like, especially in America, are not as fulfilled as they were if you go back in time. Like I think hunter-gatherer, the average hunter-gatherer, was way more fulfilled and happy with life than the average American is today. And I think if you go back 500 years, it was more fulfilled and more, you know what I'm saying? Like but but society got better, better, better. So like society counts trade off. Yeah, yeah. We're like, but that's why we're all just like uh cogs in the machine, like that that Pink Floyd song. Like we're just bricks in a wall. Like we become dependent on the state. Like the state like provides us with everything we need, so we don't have to go fucking kill things kill things for our food, but at the same time, like we pay the price, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:16

Damn. Yeah, it's pretty nutty.

Tom 1:51:26

What else did you like about that book?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:28

And like so by the way was Alright, go on. I thought it was interesting how there were I think he said five or more different human species at one time. Oh yeah. Like all because I always thought it was in a line. Like there were, you know, it went from chips to um Neanderthals and then to humans. But I mean I thought there were like a few other branches of Neanderthals that existed along the same line getting to Homo sapiens, but Homo sapiens, Neanderthals, and a few other species were all alive at the same time. And there's a theory that humans Homo sapiens wiped out all the other humans and were the species that reigns. Like, what the fuck, dude? Like I had no idea we existed at the same time at all. Yeah. And how there were mass extinctions caused by humans while we were hunter-gatherers before society even rose because we overhunted all the large animals that were in Australia when we first got there, and we overhunted everything. And I said around 80% of all the large mammals over a certain weight are extinct just from us hunting. Like I had no idea we had that much impact before agriculture and all of that. It's crazy. And like, what the fuck, dude? And like some of the and some of the species, I had no idea. Like I haven't seen any pictures, but like crazy, like almost like not dinosaur like uh caliber animals, but like just massive, like crazy looking animals that I had no idea existed before. I'm like, what the fuck, dude? Like this only a few hundred or a few thousand few thousand years ago. I'm just like, god damn. Like so eye-opening.

Tom 1:53:17

Yeah, man. Uh it is like as crazy to think that our history is like we just went around and murdered everyone else. Like, that's what the fuck happened. It was like complete like uh genocide, dude. I mean, they weren't people, but they weren't our type of humanoids, but they were homo, homo, um, still from the same family, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:35

But just imagine seeing someone that looks like you but doesn't. It's like this person's not a part of our tribe. We need to do something about like this is not right. Well, like things when all you're used to is your tribe, and then out of where you run into a camp, yeah, it's it's like, no, we need to take them out.

Tom 1:53:54

Well, dude, think about how much racial division there is today in the world, and it just if a race is of Homo sapiens, right? And it's like same concept, but but yeah, but it's even more advanced because it's completely different uh species, you know what I'm saying? So it's like or sectors of it. So it's like, yeah, we we took, I don't know, we we felt threatened by them or something. I don't know, man. It's a violent fucking start to our like existence, bro. Jesus Christ, like oh, and Andro's theories that we interbred with Neanderthals.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:22

I think we did too, yeah. There's a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA.

Tom 1:54:27

And I I think certain like areas in the world, certain people are more of a descendant of a couple different maybe of these like early like um hominids, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:36

Possible the species that took out the Neanderthals wasn't us and whoever interbred, well that could be, yeah. Possibly our species could be the mixture of the species that killed Neanderthals and Neanderthals, it's us.

Tom 1:54:54

But it it something makes sense, which is like if we see a zombie or something like on TV, it like really scares us. Um, or or dolls really scare us because if something looks almost human but is not, like there's something deep in inbred in us to tell us that's a sick person. Like, so like back in the day, if like you were super sick and you started looking weird, like a weird version of yourself, you know what I'm saying? You're like dying, like there's something like I would learn over time through evolution that like you could kill me, basically. Like you might like spread a disease to me, you know what I'm saying? So we like were it's ingrained in us to like kill or stay away from like a half alive type of person, I think. You know what I'm saying? That's why dolls and like zombies like kind of freak us out because they're like almost alive, they like look alive and robots, robots really freak us out sometimes because they like almost look alive, but they're not. Yeah, and like I think that maybe the other sectors of like um our species maybe freaked us out or something. I don't know, dude. I yeah, I think so. Or it's pretty wild. Yo, you know what else I thought about? It's kind of wild. Like, um we're talking about the Bible too, and like the first story of the Bible after Adam and Eve is Cain and Abel, bro. And like, I don't know if you know that story, but like basically Abel is like God's favorite, and Abel is like um asks God for like he makes sacrifices for God, and God's like very happy with his sacrifices, and Cain makes sacrifices, but God is like, nah, fuck you, bro. Like, I don't really give a shit about yours. And like Cain's like, what the fuck? And he like gets pissed off and he murders Abel, bro. And that's like the one of our early origin stories is like this story of Cain and Abel. And like in a lot of ways, Cain and Abel, they might have been real people, but they're also archetypes. They're like, it's more of like a reflection of like human behavior, you know what I'm saying, and how we act. And like I wonder if maybe it could be a metaphor for like Abel was like another hominid. Like it was like it was like he represents like a whole nother species, and Cain was like our species, and we like murdered all those other like hominids. And like that was that was like the Cain and Abel story, is like um the whole metaphor of that. Yeah, it's like because like the early the the further back you go in any story of human nature, like they were told by mouth, you know what I'm saying? So like when you tell a story by mouth, like like it gets passed down for generations, and like you know, it changes over time, and like different like tribes would have different like different versions of that story, and when they come together, they have to like figure it out, like okay, how are we gonna tell the story now? And they take a little bit from this one, a little bit from that one. And so, like, as we became society, some of these stories are like the best stories and like the combinations of like all the best stories, you know what I'm saying? Like, and then they get put into a book way later down the road, you know what I'm saying? So you you have to view the old testament stories kind of differently. They like, they like oh arose out of like our history, and like they are real basically, but they're not maybe they have it, maybe they didn't, but they still like derived out of us and they mean something, you know what I'm saying? And so like I wonder that could be like our history, you know what I'm saying, in a way.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:16

Yeah, it's possible. I mean, it's just hard to like really get a overarching view of like the meaning behind all the stories and if they really did happen or not. I mean, it's just so hard to like actually dive into it.

Tom 1:58:30

But the story of Adam and Eve is so interesting, bro. Like, people are always talking about that shit. It's one of my especially when people make fun of it online, like they do parodies of like Adam and Eve kind of geeks, bro. Yeah. Because in a lot of ways it blames Eve for like all the problems in the world. And it's like, I feel like it creates sexism in a way or something. Like, it's like something's going on with that story. I don't think it's like, I don't know, man, like the root of all evil.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:54

Yeah. Damn.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:58

Yeah. I mean, but that was the main reason her one of the main reasons why I stopped believing, just because that story sounded was just too much of a fantasy. Like you don't just create people out of thin air. Like it didn't, I mean, uh evolution obviously is yeah. So I mean, like that that was one of the main things, like my main doubts. I'm like, dude, this makes no fucking sense. Like, but yeah, again, it could be a metaphor for a larger picture and not to be taken literally, but the people at the time writing it, I doubt that they intended it to be a metaphor, like they believed that to be the origin story. Like, I highly doubt that it was just embredded in or it was in some way common knowledge for it to be perceived as a metaphor. Like, I I just don't think that was the intent. But then again, like the people who originally told that story might have intended it to be that way, but then as it got passed down, like you're saying, it probably people saw it from a more literal pers perspective, just because they didn't get the full picture, and then I I don't know, just hard, but yeah, I don't think people took it as a metaphor.

Tom 2:00:05

I think it was facts. Like, you know, back then it was just facts, but also since it didn't have science, they didn't have all these other things, like it just kind of was. Like, I don't think that you had to question it. It just kind of something you learned about and you knew, and it's like a story that the the metaphorical aspects of it you understood, but like you didn't. I I feel like today people get so much more worked up about it and like fight for it and like argue it and like I don't know, it's just like just believe it and move on, you know, or something, or don't. But like there's some value to be had there, but also don't get so worked up about it where you're gonna like think science is wrong and be like, oh, the world's only 5,000 years old. Like, no, it's not. Like, we know better now, it's not, but like still read the damn thing. Like it's interesting, like, but no, like we know that the world is four billion years old. Yeah, like we just know that now. It's not up for debate. And there's certain things like that I just think that yeah, we should acknowledge.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:12

I mean Yeah, but that's why I just can't be on board with one specific religion, but then still have the belief that there may be something higher than us that's and trying to give us direction or is responsible for our creation. But I mean, just for just to pick one one form of that feels completely wrong because of so many um errors and so here's a question.

Tom 2:01:41

Then, like, some people who say this are like, but I'm still spiritual, like I'm still a spiritual guy. Like, I still like do you say, like, do you have a preface like that? Like, do you think of yourself as a spiritual person? Like, do you think of yourself as an ape?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:54

People have different versions of what they mean to be spiritual. Like, yeah, what like what would that mean for you?

Tom 2:02:01

Maybe you meditate, you have a connection with something higher than yourself, but you don't try to put a label on it. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:07

Like you are See, I don't feel like I have a connection with anything external because I don't like I haven't I haven't had any experience. I mean, I I guess a few with Cole that were weird with like speaking tongues type shit, but did you feel anything in those moments? Did you feel connected to God or some higher? See, but in a a couple times I thought, like, I thought I got touched by something, but I think I was so in my head, like I was so focused, like during that time period, I was so focused on wanting to feel that kind of connection that I made myself believe in certain moments that there was something different about that moment where God was trying to say something to me because I was so focused on wanting to receive that. But since that time period, I haven't felt anything. I mean, do you feel like there's something missing in your life, or you like do you think that you don't need that? Like, I mean, are you I guess I'm I'm just not focused on seeking out a connection with something that is not objective and something that I don't know even exists, so it's hard to try to make a connection with that when like I don't have any basis for it or I don't like know how to go about it. And I mean I try to be present, I don't I don't meditate, which I probably should, but I feel like if I were to do that, it would be possible maybe from a more grounded place mentally, not where I'm expecting anything. And if I did feel some kind of connection or something that felt just different, I'll be more inclined to resonate with it because I don't have any preconceived notions that I'm trying to fulfill. So I don't know, I feel like I feel whenever I feel love for people or feel like uh again, having gratitude is another thing, but like that's not spiritual, that's just more like that's more uh physical. Like whereas spirituality, I just I'm kind of like oblivious to what that connection is supposed to feel like. But I feel like it's more so a connection within yourself and being grounded within within yourself, your mind, body, spirit, just being one and just being mindful of everything that's going on. And I feel like that's more of like a Buddhist uh way of life and way of living is more so spiritual. But yeah, that's something I do want to seek out eventually.

Tom 2:04:42

I feel like the the live music stuff, the EDM stuff, I feel like people usually have some sort of spiritual attachment to that. Yeah, or at least they think they do. Um I feel like your favorite, your favorite moment at your favorite show. I mean, did you not feel some like some bigger connection to something bigger than yourself?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:04

That goes back to the same thing. Like, how do you define what feels spiritual versus what feels physical? Like you can just have a moment of awe and just completely be in bliss at what's happening. But is that spiritual or is that just like bliss of the experience itself? Like, I just don't know how to define, like you can say something with spiritual, but I feel like it's more of a hit term. Yeah. To say, dude, the ocean, that was so spiritual, bro. But it's like dude, no, like no, you're so right.

Tom 2:05:35

Throw that shit around. I'd be saying that shit. Yeah, I'll eat like a sandwich, I'll be like, bro, that was spiritual, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:42

People throw it around like it's nothing like, bro, like you shouldn't know. Like, like you should only like really mean that shit. Like, no, you don't like. I mean, yeah, like at festivals, I mean my favorite moments in life, like I'll say probably like seven out of the top ten, just as a guest, are probably at a festival when I'm completely in awe of just life and and how I'm here right now and just everything that goes into it. And I feel like just feeling a collective connection with people around me brings me that. Yeah. Versus spiritual spirituality is down within, which I feel like I've yet to tap into.

Tom 2:06:19

You know the song, you know the saying like fake it till you make it? Um, I feel like that's me and like my spiritual journey and like all this shit. Like I like talking about I I like saying shit like that too. I like talking as if I know God is real. God did. I like talking about him, but like I haven't made I feel like I haven't made up my mind up on anything, and like even all the random random like theories I was just saying like five minutes ago, like that's probably all bullshit and wrong. I just think it sounds good. Like, you know, like I like I don't know, ever since I got into podcasts, I've been like very focused and like interested in like what sounds fucking dope, what's interesting, like what what are the most interesting in ideas? I want to talk about those, and I'm more inclined to believe the most interesting thing. For the longest time, like the the Bible was the most interesting thing. Now we have the multiverse and aliens, all this other shit we're talking about, like you know, but like I don't know, man. I I don't really I don't I definitely don't know anything at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:26

I know that's what you have to realize and just go back to gratitude. Like, I don't know, but I'm grateful.

Tom 2:07:33

Every time I step up to this mic, I feel like it's just a reminder that like I have no clue what anything is. Like I'm just I I'm here to ask questions, I'm here to like not understand, essentially, so that someone else can like help me clarify what the fuck this scary, weird, oh uh overstimulating thing called life is like and I don't know, man. It's fun to talk about, but like the f uh what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 2:08:02

Like what is it? And it's funny because the more you learn just about anything in general, but more so this, yeah, you realize you don't know, and yeah, it just expands. Like, and then like you almost feel like less smart or like feel less knowledgeable than you did as you're learning more, because you realize there's so much yet untapped. Yeah.

Tom 2:08:24

So it's just like fuck, dude. Like when I was raging hard, when I was partying like all the time and like getting drunk and like doing whatever I felt like, like I thought I had life figured out. Like I knew I was like, bro, this is like the fuck. Life is the like this is what we're meant to do, this is the purpose, like I'm a god, like whatever, you know. Like whatever the mentality was, it was just like I got this shit figured out, bro. Like, I know you're saying that as you're lit and like as I've like cut out alcohol, as I've started reading more, as I've just like matured, as I've just like reflected on myself and grown more, I'm just like so much more unsure of like anything at all. Yeah. And like that's the way I guess it should be. But I know so much more than I did then. I know so much more. I've read a hundred books between now and then, but like every book I read, I just I feel like I understand because everyone has a different fucking opinion on it, you know? And opinion in general, and then they you start to like listen to one opinion and then they start to conflict, and that's what like like you listen to the religious opinion, the Christian opinion, and then the science opinion, you like that, and then it conflicted, you know what I'm saying? If you just didn't learn, if you just stayed at the religion stage and didn't learn anything else for the rest of your life, you would be like, you'd probably be more confident in what you believed in and it would be good. But since like you and me like wanna try ever all the opinion, like like like take we're open-minded, so we want to take in all the different types of perspectives. Like, I'll read a freaking atheist book and then like the Bible, like, but I'll l I'll be open-minded to both of them, and then it hurts my brain. I'm I'm like too open-minded sometimes, and then it's just like, I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:09

I don't know what's going on. And I think that's why our parents generation, they're more so like closed off to other ideas, and it's more ingrained for them because they didn't have the science at the time or the information access that we have, and they didn't have to question anything because there was nothing really to question from their point of view. And then that as you get older, the more and more you naturally become bit like in your own ways. So that that just carries over, and I feel like that's why they're so hard to just convert any other direction.

Tom 2:10:44

Like anyone who doesn't agree with what I just said of like I'm not really sure of anything I'm saying, like pisses me the fuck off. Like anyone who's like, no, I know for sure. Like and like about whatever it is, I'm just like me, I'm not listening to you. Like, no. Like, you're just it's it's just an incorrect perspective to have at this point.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:01

I think in And like that's what Cole would always do. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like he had that kind of mentality towards it.

Tom 2:11:09

I think he's he's come back towards the center. Like, I think he was very into religion at that time.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:21

Yeah, but he wouldn't force it in any way on people.

Tom 2:11:24

And all Christians kind of have that to an extent of confidence in their beliefs that is good for them, but also something that I see as a flaw, not not it's a bug, not um a a good feature of their religion. It's like like I said, you should wrestle with God, you should question him, but you shouldn't not care about him at all either. Like I think it's important to think about. Yeah. It's an interesting I like like I said, like I'm here to talk about ideas, and when it comes to ideas, God is like the go. idea. Think about it. Like who knows if he's real or not, but like think about what idea has like plagued human beings the most like over time. It's like this idea of God. I the idea of the creator. Like the idea of it is so powerful that it's like worth talking about, dissecting, thinking about, flipping over. Um you know, just because I I I think those people who think they know for sure are like annoying, like doesn't mean I don't want to talk about God too. Like I want to talk about him probably more than anything. Why do so many like motherfuckers believe in this guy?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:34

Why? Tell me then. Because they want to have an answer for what they don't know. And they want to have security that they're going to be right in the afterlife and security. And and they want to have a sense of purpose or a sense of like like an end like an end be all type shit where like life has to have meaning or has to have an end in sight or some some like ultimatum for it to feel like it's worth living or for there to be something external to strive to receive which would be heaven and yeah like I I just think it's fear of the unknown which is the main thing that creates religion and yeah but I mean that's just a symptom of us being conscious people that can think for themselves. That's just how it goes. It's interesting.

Tom 2:13:32

It is man well I think we're gonna wrap it up kind of soon like this has been a fucking hell of a run dude like is there anything else you wanna what time is it? It's like 515 I think 518? Sure yeah should probably get the work out yeah so Dan and I are about to um let's do like you want to wrap up the weekend because we're not gonna do another podcast right so let's do a wrap up on the weekend. Um all right guys so this could be taken out of like context from the podcast. So Dan and I are wrapping up our final podcast of our Miami week um if you've been tacking along for this long episode we've been talking about all sorts of shit but um we're gonna do like a quick reflection on just like how it's been you know uh we've had a really active fun just exciting week you know here weekend here in Miami. Um I am doing calisthenics for the first time Dan is embracing poi again um we're both doing yoga just stuff that we're just not usually doing we're just fitting in we've done rollerblading skating um it's just been like fucking awesome active weekend I would just recommend anyone who plans all their trips around drinking to just do this every once in a while once a year man just like find like a whole active maybe snow snowboarding or something like that like any sort of just activity to revolve your trip around like it has just been like for me so much better than just getting fucked up like the whole week.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:59

Yeah I don't know about you I mean way better bro feels because like you can embrace every moment and like you're not seeking anything to really like take you away from like the like what you're here to do because when you're just drinking during a vacation that's the objective and that's like the focus the whole time like we're here to drink we're not here to like experience real shit we're just here to like have fun and let loose let go of all of our inhibitions for a weekend as opposed to like having direction and not seeking anything out to take us away but instead of like immersing ourselves into what we're doing and trying out new things and just being being here being now yeah and I think a lot of times for me like a vacation is represented like an escape from reality and I think it's good to have that once a year.

Tom 2:15:50

But like this is like the opposite I feel like it's been like look reality in the eye and like you know try to improve yourself which is usually not what a vacation is all about. It's just like an escape like a little break, you know? And so I don't know that's just been a whole different it's just been different.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:09

Like it is good to escape sometimes but it's also good to not yeah you know I feel like we're doing both though because the fact that we're in South Beach and the fact that we're so free to do it because like we wouldn't be able to do this as easily as we have been if we were in a more normal environment but like being here is an escape in of itself and what we're doing is on par with reality and like what we're trying to do in the future. So it's kind of both which is pretty sick.

Tom 2:16:40

Like working on ourselves self-improvement stuff but it's not it still is an escape from the nine to five even though we're working on ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:48

Yeah. But it's not just because we're doing other things to try to like move ourselves forward at the same time.

Tom 2:16:58

Yeah man so um I'm about to go hit muscle beach try a muscle up for the first time um what what's the vibe with that?

SPEAKER_01 2:17:06

You we're gonna use a band to help me please right yeah well at first well when you're fresh I'm gonna try to have you just do it but I'm gonna have I'm gonna try to show you how to do it with the maximum momentum you can get on the way up to get your body as high as possible. Because once you get your chest over the bar it's just a dip. So it's like we we want to focus on getting your chest over the bar. And at first you need to use your legs as momentum. So that's when you raise your knees up to get your body higher so I'm gonna try to have you do it like that. And if you can't then we'll use the band or we'll we'll probably use the band for the actual session like when we're training. But yeah I at first I want to try to get you to just do it without a band at all.

Tom 2:17:52

Mm-hmm and then after that we're gonna try to record some content where I'm gonna try to pull on some rollerblades which in sounds like a terrible fucking idea I might wipe out who knows but we want to just to do something fucking brazy. So hopefully since I'm talking about it now in the podcast it'll come to fruition but if not I mean bro it's gonna be that's feasible for sure just I mean and yeah if you wipe out it'll make for its own clip. But we just wanted to do like the most like extra moment I feel like that's it.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:26

Just pulling but but then tomorrow morning tell them oh my god so the biggest club in Miami is called Club Space and they're open until 11 a.m so it's 11 p.m to 11 a.m every night on the weekends I'm not sure about weekdays but there's a show tomorrow night um oh wait no tonight there's a show tonight and it's going until 11 a.m and there's an option when you go into the eventbrite there's an option to get tickets to enter after 7 a.m so it's from 7 to 11 and it's a lot cheaper. So for the full price ticket if you were to go right when it starts or throughout the night it would be like$80. But for this option it's only like$18 per ticket to enter after 7. So we're gonna go to bed early and then wake up at like 6, 6 30. We're gonna get ready and then go to the club completely sober and just embrace all the chaos and what the whatever whatever the fuck's going to be going on. But it it's gonna be sick because there's I think three artists that are pretty big techno DJs. So it's gonna be like an actual rave and I met this guy at the club last night who was like talking it up like crazy and he showed me videos from when he was there like two weeks ago at 9 a.m and shit was packed. It was popping it was just like a movie bro and that's gonna be the last thing we do on this trip. We just go there sober and just see what the fuck is going on and then we're gonna drive home after that. So it's gonna be crazy.

Tom 2:20:07

Wild. Well if for some reason you've actually listened to like all three podcasts and you've like are still here on this journey at the very end like thank you so much. Like honestly uh me and Dan opened our doors to see if anyone wanted to like tag along basically by recording so much fucking content. So we really appreciate you and are grateful um if you've if you've stayed tuned this long. And if we're just talking to ourselves that's fine too man because we did this for us it's it's been fun and stamped in history. Yeah bro it's it's a memory for me so that's um that's all we're really here to do man. Make memories and that's it and and enjoy the moment. So let's continue to do it. Uh how many type shit got like six more hours until we go to bed. Yeah we gotta make it a full six hours. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 2:20:58

Like we gotta do podcast type shit and then you know we gotta when I'm on type shit makes me want to do other shit type shit because get inspired when I'm listening to that kind of shit and then I'm just on that type shit wave which makes me want to do that boy type shit after the muscle up and then I'll be feeling inspired type shit so then it's just going and then sky's blitz. Say less Beddington suplex junior to the third tower Lincoln Memorial Sheeshington Sheesh Sheesh City