Cody Cashman: Therapy, Relationships, Rugby, & Pickleball | #45

Cody and Tom discuss many different topics throughout this podcast episode. They discuss Cody's experience with therapy and how it has improved his life. Other topics include relationships, friendships, weight loss, rugby, and Pickleball. This was also recorded near Cody's 30th birthday so he reflects on his 20's and how he has grown in the past decade.

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Transcript

Tom 0:00

Alright, so this might not be a topic that you're excited to talk about, but you're turning 30 in two days. So happy birthday, man.

Cody 0:08

Thank you.

Tom 0:08

Thank you. And how does it feel to be 30? What what's going on?

Cody 0:13

You know, a month ago I said no different. Um, and then a month ago I hernated a disc, and I don't know if it's correlated, but it feels like it is. Oh no. So I'm in like the last year, I've probably done more PT than I than I have uh the rest of my life. Again, I don't know if that's correlated, but my body's breaking down. I don't I don't know. Um no, it feels fine. It feels I don't know. I'm not huge on birthdays anyway. Um Natasha likes to say that I'm a Leo. Like I like uh oh, he's always he's in his birthday mode. He'd watch out, you know, it's his birthday week, birthday month, but it's like I I don't I don't have my birthday on Facebook. I don't like getting those random comments from people. I try to like streamline that. Um, do you believe in that stuff?

Tom 0:59

Uh what is it called? Astrology?

Cody 1:01

Not particularly. Not really. Uh Natasha's when we started dating would talk about it. Um it would be kind of funny to look at it and be like, I guess that's like true, but it feels like it's applicable to anybody. You know what I mean? Um so I don't know. I think it's kind of funny to like look at it every now and then. Um, but then the problem is then like you look at it one time and then your fucking Google feed is pulling up all the stuff like you know, your most compatible matches, like who cares? I'm fucking married, dude. Like I don't need this stuff. So uh no, but you know, it's like Yeah, the the birthday thing is weird, people really look into it, and I I don't I don't think it matters that much. Um, you know what I mean? Um no, it feels I'm excited. I think 30 is like the best time, you know, uh as as you're looking at it. It's kind of like when you're ideally, you know, for us it's like we're we're we're pretty much situated. We made it, you know what I mean? We're success stories as far as like life is concerned. You know, we have jobs, we're we're healthy, we're living the American dream, you know. Could we have traveled more? I wish, you know what I mean, dude with more money, sure. But you know, like we've kind of done it, you know. I I love my wife, I think she loves me very much, you know what I mean? So it's like what more can you ask for? You know what I mean? Um you know, kids, but that's you know, coming, so it's like 30 feels pretty good, you know what I mean?

Tom 2:18

Yeah, I feel like 30 is like a big mental breakdown for a lot of people. Or it's not, or or it's like you kind of finally got it all figured out and situated. Like I think things are coalescing for me too in a way where I think I'm gonna feel really good at 30. Like I'm looking forward to it in a way where it should be like my 20s, but uh more money and kind of have things figured out. Like Sabrina just got done with school, like a lot of things we were like very much a work in progress um all through the I mean, well, she'll be graduated at 27, but for me, like she's just graduating as I'm turning 29, so I feel like we'll really get kind of a handle on our finances by the time I turn 30 in a way that it just should be a very exciting actual decade for us, you know. Yeah, not like not this bummer that a lot of people portray it to be.

Cody 3:07

Yeah, I think that like mental breakdown aspect comes from the people that are, you know, I I don't know. Like I've got friends who are still single, you know what I mean? And like it's like, you know, we started dating right after college, you know, Natasha and I. Um and it's just one of those things where it's just harder for some people or they just haven't met that right person yet. And I feel like unfortunately, people like us, you know, put that pressure on people because they're like, wow, like they seem happy, they seem like it's going well, you know. I feel like I missed that, you know what I mean? I want that. And then it it it you you hit something like 30, which people have perceived as a like milestone, it's not different, you know what I mean? It's not like you're really gonna live to 100, it's not like you know you're 30% of the weight done. You know what I mean? You could die tomorrow, you know what I mean? It could be you're 99% of the way done. So it's like I don't know why there's such a such a stigma of that. Um, but people people do perceive that, you know what I mean. So I think that's a big thing, is it's like, oh well, I need that job. I'm supposed to buy a house by the time I'm 30. You know what I mean? Um I I don't feel that stress. I've never put I don't know, I'm not I I never did goals, you know what I mean? Like I'll talk to like some of my other friends who are a few years younger. It's like man, I just need to get a house by the time I'm 30. Why? Why can you financially do it? Is it a good time to buy a house? You know what why? Why do you need a house? You know what I mean? Um so I think like those goals are very important to motivate yourself to do things, but at the same time, like you can't let it like mentally devastate you, you know what I mean? And like I don't know. It's a very tricky balance, you know what I mean? Um I probably could have put more goals to motivate myself more, you know what I mean? Um so definitely.

Tom 4:43

I used to have that goal 30 by 30, right? 30 million by 30. I don't know if I'm gonna get there. But I'm not letting that bring me down though. You know, so why can't they just get over their shit?

Cody 4:54

I had uh I'd I would take 30 anything by 30.

Tom 4:58

I mean shit. Yeah, yeah.

Cody 5:00

30 30 dollars, 30 hours, 30 yeah, 30 children. I mean 30 children, bro.

Tom 5:08

30 dogs? 30 acres? 30 dogs would be rough. Maybe 30 fish. 30 fish. No, I would let them die, honestly. I couldn't handle 30 fish. I think I think the optimal thing would be like 30, I don't know. Dude, we had two plants and they both died recently, dude. So I couldn't handle 30 plants either.

Cody 5:26

I we're trying to do the plant thing too. I I I don't know. That's I don't know, is that a 30 thing? We we we started that recently.

Tom 5:32

Yeah, yeah. It is it is a like once that stage of your life, yeah, definitely.

Cody 5:37

Yeah.

Tom 5:38

I don't know, man. We went on like a three-week trip to Panama, and like I had this plant sitter, like this guy that I would give my plant to, and um, I like tried to repot it and it had like a thousand ants in it, and like I just couldn't hand it over to this guy, and then I like left it outside, and I don't know. I'm just a terrible plant dad. I I I carry a lot of guilt about that, honestly. I can't keep these plants alive. There's no guilt.

Cody 5:58

It's you're doing your best. You know, it's like uh Italian therapy, you know, like you can't you can't blame your parents, they're just trying their best, you know. Yeah, yeah. You killed the plant, you tried your best. It's all right, son. You know, you'll I'll I'll figure it out. Yeah, you'll you'll find another plant. It's all a matter of what you want to pay. That's the most that's the most irritating part about the planting thing, right? Is it like, oh, like you're feeling good when you buy all the plants and it's looking good, and then you're like, man, I should buy more plants because this is pretty nice. Yeah, I'm like enjoying watering, and then like you get two weeks in, you're like, I think I'm killing everything, and I've spent $200 on these plants. Now what the hell am I gonna do? You know what I mean? Like, it's like uh this is such a mistake, you know. I don't know.

Tom 6:37

Yeah, I think my problem is that they're just as much responsibility as like a dog, but a dog will come remind me, like, yo, I'm hungry.

Cody 6:43

No, I see, I think the thing is, I think the thing is when you start the planting, you think it's as big of a responsibility. I think if you just fucking let them go, they do better. They do, yeah. If you forget about them, it's great. You know what I mean? It's like every time I like remember them, it's like, oh, I gotta go water them. It's like been two weeks and they're they're doing great, they're thriving. You know, it's like the more I leave them alone. I need to get like a cactus or something that'll the succulents, the suck game is nice. The little cacti and the aloe vera and stuff. Those are pretty easy. Those are definitely those are nice, but then those are very hard. Um you gotta be careful to overwater them with those for sure. They tell you to do like ice cubes with those. I feel fucking old as we're talking about this right now. That's that's what I feel. You want to know what 30 feels like? We're talking about succulents on my podcast with my friends in town. This is this is hard strong.

Tom 7:30

You were like, what are we talking about? I did not know plants were on the agenda, but it just came to mind. Okay, but wait, something that was on the agenda is okay, so what um you just finished the decade. I do like, even though I'm not big on birthdays either necessarily, I do like kind of reflecting on the year goals for the next year, but for you, you're at like this decade passageway. So, like, can you just like reflect on your 20s, how they went, like what kind of person were you at 20? How have you changed? Um, have you grown how have you grown? Like, I feel like you kind of ever since I met you, you seem like you have a good energy, you got it all figured out, but uh it can't have always been that way. So, like um who were you at 20?

Cody 8:10

I I feel like the energy the energy thing is a good thing to touch on. I feel like uh at 20 it was very um unbridled is probably a good word. You know, it was kind of everywhere. Um and I feel like I was very much so able to uh uh funnel that and control that um and figure out what I really wanted to work on and and you know what was important. Um you know, I was very much the third person who would um, you know, whether it's friends or something like that or or activities or hobbies, you know, I'd be all in on like a friend group and then I'd bounce around and I would have a bunch of friends and then I would let the relationships fizzle, you know, and they would be like my best friends for you know six months and I would do everything with them and then I'd bounce and get bored, you know, or or or you know, I would, you know, decide I was gonna go, I don't know, into get into sneakers. You know, I was into sneakers for a few years, you know, and it's like I spent all this money and I have like 150 pairs of shoes, and then it's like I'm gonna sell them all, you know what I mean? It's like why did I like it's like what am I doing? You know what I mean? Um so it's like it's like tempering of that energy. Um it's it's like kind of just I don't know, I feel like I really found myself. I think part of that too comes with Natasha. Um I think I was very um I don't know, uh emotionally unaware, I think. Um partly just like the way my family operated, you know what I mean. My family wasn't the most emotionally in touch. Um, you know, they were just kind of like cut and dry, everything's black and white, you know, we get shit done and we move on, you know what I mean? Um you know, you got food, you got water, you get you get to rest, you know, you're good, you know what I mean. Um there was no like mental check-ins, you know what I mean. So I did a lot of emotional growing. Um that's something that I really needed. Um and uh that was pretty important, you know, doing some like I think everybody should do like therapy. I started counseling therapy, that shit is incredible. You know, at the start, it's like you know, you just kind of get to go and complain for an hour. I think everybody could probably just complain for an hour. Um, and the best part is it's like if you would try to do that with a personal, uh significant other or personal significance in your life, you know what I mean, uh friend, family, you know, you're probably gonna offend them at some point. You know, this person doesn't give a damn. They don't know Johnny, you know, you could complain about them, your wife, whoever it is, you know, um, and it just kind of helped you get that off your chest, you know what I mean? Like journaling, anything like that. Um, I tried to do a lot of that, you know. I tried to open up with like meditation, yoga. Um, I've always worked out. Um, you know, I've always kind of struggled with that, with like weight loss and gain and stuff like that. Um and uh were you out of shape at 20, or were you Um I uh yeah, I mean I graduated high school or I was in high school. I got up to 270 in high school, graduated at like 230 from high school, got down to like 195 in college and graduated about 230. Um pretty strong 230, not like an out of shape 230, and then um got the girlfriend, right? Got Natasha. Um she's little. We'd go out to dinner and we'd go drinking. I would have like one and a half to two meals. Oh yeah. You know, I would I would eat my meal and I would finish hers. I don't want to waste the money. That's fine. And then you go drinking. Um so I got up to like almost 300 pounds. Um, probably probably peaking at like 2018. Um really? Yeah, man. Yeah, I was big. I was big, bad, bad, bad. And I carried it well. You wouldn't tell. You couldn't tell. Most people had no idea I was that big. I did not know. And then you start to lose weight, and people are like, oh, you were big. You know what I mean? Like, oh my god. That was pretty. I mean, because right now I'm like, I don't know, like 230-ish. Um and I got down to like 220 when we got married. Um But it's like just a bounce, you know what I mean? It it really, I don't know. I don't know. If you wait I don't know. I'm I'm I'm uh I've I've lost the plot here a little bit. I'm I'm I'm black. No, it's okay.

Tom 12:04

I've actually remembered all of the little things you pointed out. I'm gonna start dissecting them each. Okay. But I'm trying to decide right now between the therapy and the weight loss because what is the time frame on that? What what year did you start going to therapy though? Probably probably during COVID. So 2019.

Cody 12:22

Probably probably like 2020. Late 19, early 2020, probably.

Tom 12:26

Um okay, so then you you were already on your weight loss journey then at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I had already lost a lot of weight. Um let's talk about that first. So why what what was your lowest moment? What what what did you realize like, okay, this I need to make a change? Um what was your mindset and mentality like around like the 300?

Cody 12:46

It was one of those things where I had I had started going back to the gym and I was trying to like bulk up, lift heavy, get big, um, and then just kind of stopped. Just life got crazy and just stopped. And so I'd I'd I bulked up and then I had all this just weight, you know what I mean, and then it just kind of just turned into like fat. You know what I mean? Um and just you know, we just used to drink a lot more we were younger, you know what I mean? Um, you know, we don't really drink anymore. Uh we ate a lot unhealthier. Um it was just part of the lifestyle of um you know living in Arlington, living right in Boston, having people, you know, happy hours, dinners, just socializing socializing, you know what I mean? Um and the lowest part was probably, you know, you're trying to get dressed for work and it's like, man, this shit doesn't fit me anymore. Like, oh my god, you know, and it's like all of a sudden you switch from like a large to an XL and you're at a double XL and you're like, oh, this is this is new. You know, this is pretty new territory. I've never had to shop in the double XLs you know. You can't afford a new wardrobe again. Right, right, right. You're like, oh man, okay. Um, you know, and the pans start to expand and you're like, oh man, like this doesn't these 34s are pretty big, you know. I've stretched them out this much, you know what I mean? Um so that was probably the lowest point, and it was also like one of those things where we went on a vacation, it was like New Year's Eve um with a bunch of my cousins, something we've done regularly. And I just kind of looked at the pictures, you know, and I and I and it was just standing next to people who I know I've seen pictures of, you know, my cousins regularly, um, but they're not all the time, you know. You do pictures up here with friends and stuff like that, and you look through them, you know, um, and you you're you're morphing um real time, so you don't really see your body change. But then you'd look back at these pictures that would pop up from my cousins like a year or two ago, you know, and be like, oh shit, like dude, I I look I look a lot bigger, you know, my cheeks, you know, something. It's just like puffed up, you know what I mean? So it's just kind of like jarring to realize. And I just had him stepped on the scale, I looked on the scale, and I and I already started losing weight, and I was like 290. I was like, oh my god, like I've already I feel like I've been working out for like three months already, you know, like what the hell was I at? So I don't even know what I was at, but I must have been at at least three, you know what I mean? Um that was probably the lowest. Um was just kind of like the realization, you know, because like your ignorance is bliss, right? You know, I'm sitting there, it's eating, drinking, you know, life is good, you know, and then it's like, oh man, like we life could be better, you know. Um, so that was definitely uh one of the most jarring things. Um I I don't know where I'm supposed to go with this. What was the other part of the question?

Tom 15:21

No, that's a follow-up. So it seems like drinking was a big part of this weight loss journey. Did you um just have to cut out certain and socialize less, or did you have to like uh have better control and and just have a couple drinks on each hangout? Like how did you go about um cutting out the alcohol?

Cody 15:42

So I want to say like by um this is 2018, right? So by the time COVID had started, what if that was March, March of 2019, right? Within that year I'd gotten down to like 250. I lost like 50 pounds almost within like a year or whatever. Um, which was just kind of like I was kind of like psychotically just determined. We had like an elliptical in our apartment building, and I'd go and do like 30 minutes to 60 minutes every day just churning away on that thing. Um because I'd started messing up my feet because I was so fat, uh, so heavy, you know what I mean? Um not not not fat, you know. I I just was I was too heavy for my body, and I started damaging my feet, um, uh like the bones. It was hurt, pain, it was painful to walk. Um I was trying to run on them, um, and it was damaging, I think, like the metatarsal bone. Um so I switched elliptical, um and we had, you know, the drinking had kind of um the j the drinking hadn't really stopped. That was kind of still there, right? We had just switched the the intensity and the activity, right? And maybe the diet a little bit. Um but the COVID hit and the socializing stopped, and like we didn't drink for I don't know, almost a year, nine months. Okay. Um, so that was like a big thing, and then like during COVID, I got down to whatever 230, 220, and kind of have maintained that since. Um so that was when it like the drinking was like, oh, this is easy, and then the big thing too is we would do these smoothies, which were like disgusting. Uh and I and I would drink like two or three of them a day just to like get everything that I needed. Ooh, all the nutritional value, right? Nice. Yeah, so I would just have that two or three times a day, and it would be like it would be so filling that you wouldn't want to eat, you know what I mean? Um, so and I have a bad habit too of like boredom eating, especially at work. So if I was at work, I would just crush, you know, whatever I had, whether it was a salad or a bag of chips, you know, I would just eat the whole thing. Um, so you know, working from home was a lot easier, you know. If I had downtime, you know, I would just go clean the dishes or you know, do something else. There was something to occupy myself besides eating, you know what I mean? Um, so that was a lot more helpful.

Tom 17:53

Um yeah, I feel like people either went sober during COVID or just went off the deep end and was like blackout in their apartment for months because um just alcohol sales went through the roof, right? So someone I know someone was drinking. But yeah, I went sober too. Like the COVID was really healthy for me. And I was I was like in McDonald's at lunchtime and not eating and just drinking like Red Bulls and sodas, and like I just didn't feel like in control of my diet or my life in the office in a way where once I went home too, that's when I uh I lost a bunch of weight as well. Yeah, I I got healthy as well, and I just kind of could work out during lunch and you know, just have more autonomy over my schedule, which all day in an office, bro, you don't want to work out when you get home. And like I had a choice between working out at my the gym in my office, or I could like do basically like a 30-minute or 20-minute commute in traffic to another gym and it would make my day longer. Right. So I ended up going with the office, the office gym, and I would just go, I just wanted to leave so bad by that point. So I would go work out after work and I would just do like a 30-minute workout, and I'd be like, dude, I just want to get the heck out of here. And I should have probably done it differently at that time, just to have like a different place where I can go work out.

Cody 19:11

Right, to escape to.

Tom 19:12

Yeah, I remember that was that was the worst shape of my life too, actually, is like right before the pandemic started. Um, and then on the other end is when I got healthy too. Obviously, it was a dark time for some people, but it it a lot of people, it was a good, healthy switch up. Um, kind of made you realize like what really matters and stuff.

Cody 19:29

And yeah, it was definitely like a good way to to take the good out of a really shitty situation, you know what I mean? Um I don't know. That was that's what that's what we tried to do. You know what I mean?

Tom 19:40

So well, how'd you handle drinking once it ended then? Like how'd you how how how does your relationship with alcohol change at all when it was time to re-enter society?

Cody 19:51

Yeah, right, right, right. We're like coming back out like animals. Um No uh it was uh we we kind of didn't uh because we kind of enjoyed it, you know. It was definitely like uh incremental. Um, you know what I mean? We're we're like, yeah, we'll we'll go socialize, have a drink or two, you know, and then it's like the more and more and more and more and more, you know, the more you drink and drink and drink. So I mean, we're also just older, so like us drinking a lot now is like four drinks, you know what I mean, versus like who knows how much we were drinking, you know, before COVID, you know what I mean? Uh I don't I didn't even want to look at the bar tab, you know what I mean? Um so it's just one of those things too where like your standards have adjusted too. So like us getting, you know, drunk, we're also like a lot more diligent about trying to get to bed, you know what I mean? Um so I mean it really is like I I don't know, it's it's like just it's just kind of like uh more respect for yourself and your body, right? Is it's like I feel it a lot more, you know. I used to not get hangovers. I didn't have hangovers until like probably a year or two ago. Um it's like no no dude, I used to like Natasha would hate it, and like I'd get up, I'd black out, I'd wake up, I'm like, you know, the the Undertaker, you know, coming out of the coffin. I'd be like, what are we doing today? And she'd be like, You're making me a fucking frozen meal, dude. I can't move, you know what I mean? Like I'm dying. Um so it's just one of those things where like now it's like I wake up and I'm groggy if I don't get enough sleep. You know what I mean? Um, so it's definitely we we still drink, we're trying not to, um uh just because two for like health things. Um you know what I mean, but like socially, you know, we we the the biggest thing too is like you go out to dinner. Such a waste, such a waste of money, you know what I mean? It it triples your bill, and we're saving for a house, we're doing all these things, we're trying to just be more progressive, uh uh proactive about you know our goals, right? You know, so um it's easy to stuff to cut that stuff out. We don't really enjoy it. There's no real purpose, you know what I mean? So it's it's such a layup to to to take that out, you know what I mean.

Tom 21:58

Yeah, the no hangover thing is definitely a Gift and a curse, right? I mean it's like a superpower, but then that's probably why you were drinking so much in the first place because there's just no consequences. Repercussions, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I guess you should be grateful now in some weird way. You got more repercussions on your drinking.

Cody 22:15

Oh god, yeah.

Tom 22:17

I had like three drinks the other night and I was hungover. I'm like, dude, that's that's so lame. Oh yeah.

Cody 22:22

Three it's terrible. It's like debatably pathetic. Um I mean, but I don't I don't know. I feel like it happened for a reason. You know what I mean? Like biologically, it's like you should not be binge drinking anymore, dude. You know, you you should be doing other things. Your time is up. Right. Right, it's time to move on.

Tom 22:39

So uh okay, so what uh you said you mentioned friendships. Um you said you had a lot of friends like in your early 20s, and then it seemed like you needed to like pick like certain people to invest in, maybe. Uh so like what is your it seems like friends are really important to you guys too. So like what is your outlook on friendships?

Cody 22:57

How did how did you go about picking the right people to it's it's it wasn't like it wasn't like picking the right people, it was more like like I valued all of these people, but I personally am very bad at like maintenance, you know what I mean? Like I don't pick up the phone, I don't text you, you won't hear from me for like six months, you know what I mean? But it's like in my mind, you're still my best friend, but not everybody feels that way, right? So like I I try to just be more cognizant of that and to try and you know it it comes back to this whole emotionally aware thing, right? We're like just empathizing and trying to feel um you know what other people are feeling, what they're thinking, you know what I mean? Um I was I was very much so just out of touch with a lot of people who I thought I knew. Um, you know what I mean? And so I just wanted to make sure that I they were aware that I cared about them, you know what I mean? Um, and just being like, hey, you know, I I'm sorry, I'll try to do better. You know what I mean? It it this is you know how I perceive it. You know, I it might not be and a lot of people were like, dude, why why are you fucking telling me this? You know what I mean? And and it's like, you know, I don't know, like I've got a conscience now, I guess. I don't know, and I like feel guilt about the fact that like I only talk to you like two times a year because I'm fucking busy. I got my own family, I got her family, you know, we've got all these friends, you live two hours away, and we can't make it out there for a weekend, you know what I mean? So it's like, hey man, we're still thinking about you, we're not seeing you all the time, but you know, it's just it's just you know, uh I don't know, just putting in the effort, you know what I mean? Um, and and that effort could be just a text or a call, you know, and it's and it's so minimal, but it it it means so much to a lot of people and you don't think about it, you know what I mean? Um so and I don't think I'm the only person that thinks that way um because a lot of people didn't care, like I said, but you know, it it matters to a good amount of people, you know what I mean? Even just saying happy birthday on their birthday, you know what I mean? It's like definitely it's crazy what what little gestures make a difference to people, you know.

Tom 24:51

Yeah, man, it is it does go a long way. Like one thing I've noticed is like the type of friends who like after you hang out, they just send you that text the next day, like, hey man, have fun. Like it's like oh thanks, man. I was I was actually really worried you didn't have fun. So people worry about that kind of shit as you get older, you don't know who really fucks with you, who doesn't. Right.

Cody 25:10

And I think too the older you get, too, the more in your head you get. You know what I mean? So that's part of it too, is like I feel like I was getting more in my head, and it was to the point that it was unhealthy, you know what I mean? Um so that's like kind of what the counseling started too, you know what I mean? It's like you you you just want to make sure that you're I don't know, per perceiving things properly, you know what I mean?

Tom 25:30

Um so yeah, let's talk about that and let's just um you're talking about you're not as emotionally aware, and that's something I really relate to. Um so I'll just give some context. Like I came from a house of three boys, right? No sisters, um, not a lot of emotionally aware people in my household for the first 20 years of my life as well, and then only male friend groups into college, and so I've been with Sabrina for seven years. Uh I think we're we've been dating about the same amount of time. I think so. I think so. But it's been a journey for me as well, like living with a woman and just being like with her family that has mostly women now, so now you know, uh, I'm I'm I've also become emotionally aware, and it's like super lame, like super lame to say that in a way like where it's just like, oh, like Sabrina will be like, oh, you didn't you didn't really think about how your emotions affect other people, like and I'm like, no, so when did you start thinking about this? I'm like, two years like into our us dating, like these kind of like awareness didn't happen for me, and so um I don't know, it's kind of embarrassing to admit, but like I'm right there with you as far as like I I just it was something that I just paid no um I gave no attention and I I didn't understand its value. Um and I'm I think I haven't even started therapy yet, so yeah, I like I have still have a lot longer way to go than you, so maybe I I think it's different for everybody, and I don't think it's embarrassing to admit.

Cody 27:04

I think that there's a shit ton of people who don't even realize that they're not emotionally aware, you know what I mean? And they think they are, but it a lot of it is just like internalizing um their emotions kind of unhealthily, and it's like they think they're processing it, but they're just not, you know what I mean? Yeah, I I don't know, or maybe they I'm I'm just wrong. Um I'm just projecting, but no, I I think it's a a huge help, a huge help, you know. Um and like I don't know, like with your family, like you know, there was definitely issues um as I continue to get older and older and tried to separate myself from my family to create like my own unit as like a as a person first, you know what I mean, and then a person with a girlfriend and then a person with a wife, um, you know, looking to start my own family. Um but there was definitely like friction with my parents, um, you know what I mean? Um and it it helps you to to identify you know what's going on and like what like bothers you, you know what I mean, just so you can have a much more productive conversation, you know what I mean? Um so like I don't know, my parents don't don't always you know take it great the first time when I'm like we gotta cut this shit out. You know what I mean? I I figured out that this is unhealthy when you guys do this, um, you know what I mean? So let's not do this. And I'm like, we don't do that. It's very, you know, defensive up in arms, you know what I mean? It's like, wait, we love you, we would never do that. And it's like, no, I understand you love me, you know, and you're just trying to do what you you're you're what you think you're doing, um, you know, and it's just that trickle-down effect too, but it's like, you know, uh, it's it's it's it's the that classic line, right? Like, well, you've got a better that than I did, you know, and it's like, well, that's good, you know, hopefully I have it better, you know, than you did, you had it better than your father, you know what I mean, and so on. Hopefully my kids will have it better than me, you know what I mean? Um, but it's only gonna happen if I put in the work now to be a better, you know, more in touch father, you know what I mean, or person um to to give them better tools, you know what I mean? Um so I don't think it's embarrassing to admit, you know. I think I think everybody has it.

Tom 28:59

Um yeah, better late than never, right? For sure as far as like understanding that kind of stuff.

Cody 29:05

Yeah, and I and I think too, especially with people our age, our parents' generation, um we're just there there was I don't know. I I I don't know if this sounds sexist, but it's like there was a a lot less um emphasis on like this for for the boys growing up, especially in like for like the sons, you know what I mean? And the and the older generation, the males were you know just you know hard nose, you just put your head down to work, you know, whatever bullshit they they feed you, you know what I mean? And then you expected to have that, and now it's like I don't know, this is pretty fucked up, dude. Like that, you didn't teach me anything, you know, you didn't give me any of the tools to be like uh um an emotionally intelligent like adult, you know what I mean? Um and sometimes you know those relationships you see with your parents just aren't always healthy either, you know what I mean? And they've made it work and it's progressed and it's fine, you know what I mean, or it's not fine, you know what I mean, but um I don't know, it's it's it's hard, you know what I mean, just to to to do to break that cycle, you know what I mean, to get out of that.

Tom 30:08

Yeah, like our value is placed on what we accomplish, you know, how much money we make or what things we do, not anything to do with like how we process our emotions and how like how we have our relationships or things like that. And then if we were out of line, it's like boys will be boys kind of mindset, like there's no repercussions for just being right, like just totally out of touch with what you're feeling and what you're going through for some for some reason, right? You know, coming from that generation.

Cody 30:37

Yeah, it's like the boys don't cry. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like it's exactly what you're saying. Yeah, it's uh yeah, you're just supposed to I don't know, boys will be boys, and it's like, I don't know, or people just be people, you know.

Tom 30:51

So what um what then like spawned the decision to like go to therapy and like what have you learned? Um just you know, you don't have to get specific, but like general how has it changed you? What have you what tools do you now have to process things?

Cody 31:07

Um so one thing I would say that was pretty crazy is that like when once you start to go through this, something that's pretty common, um, that I still struggle with every now and then, whenever I feel like there's something that is bigger that I've kind of uncovered that I didn't even realize, you know what I mean, is that like that first that first time when you're when you're really just trying to like dig shit up, you know what I mean? Um it's pretty common to become depressed. So that was pretty hard. Um because it's kind of like you're you know, for me I was like 27 and it's like I'm feeling 27 years of emotions at one time, and it's not all good, you know what I mean? So it's pretty hard to process it. So that was pretty um crazy, you know what I mean? Because you're just kind of like, you know, I it's like, oh, I'm supposed I'm trying to do this thing to make myself better and make myself happier, right? But it's like the immediate effect is like just fucking like borderline mentally crippling, right? You know, like Natasha's like, what's wrong with you? You're so angry, you know what's going on. It's like, I don't know, dude. Like I think that my parents hate me, you know what I mean? Like, like I'm just like, wow, why how could they do this to me? You know what I mean? Like, how could I do this to my friends? What am I such an asshole, you know? I didn't even know I was doing these things, you know what I mean? And it's like, no, like you're you're human, you know what I mean? Um, so that's pretty that's pretty hard, you know, as you start to to go through that. Um But I think the biggest thing too is just like being able to identify your emotions. Um that was like probably one of the first biggest things for me was you know, I always thought that I struggled kind of with anger issues, right? I always thought that I was a little bit explosive, a little bit quick trigger. Um and I think that for for me, it was never anger, anger was like a secondary emotion. Um and the and the the initial one was kind of like sadness, right? Um you know, I think I had this like I I don't know, this complex of just like I I guess like a victim, you know what I mean? Like kind of like why me, man? Like why me? And just like feeling sad, and then like it just kind of turned into this fucking anger, you know what I mean? Um but so like just like being able to identify that that sadness, like just kind of like like massage that out, you know what I mean? It it really like released a lot of that tension, like on in your soul, you know, or however you want to perceive it, like your mind, you know. Um so it's like if you if you're just struggling with something, it's like just just figure out like what you're like just really, really trying to deal with um too. You know what I mean? Um and it's hard. It's hard. It was it was a a bitch to figure out because you know I had no idea what I was feeling. Because that's the whole point of this, right? Is I had no idea what I was looking for. Um I'd never done any of this, you know, emotional self-reflection. Um so it's that type, it's it's it's it's just that type of stuff. And then you know, you start to realize, you know, well, why do I do this? That's what I like about it. You know what I mean? It's like, hey man, you know, this week I snapped in snapped in Natasha, I was feeling pretty bad, you know, irritated about all these things, and it's like, well, why? And it's like, oh well, I guess it's because of this, you know, and then you can start to like build on that and be like, okay, well, I know that this is gonna bother me, and it's because I was raised to do this, or I saw this in my parents' relationship, or I was treated this way. Um, and then you can start to like nip that in the bud uh moving forward, you know what I mean, which is so helpful. And I I feel like you know, it's like helped my relationship with you know, Natasha, my parents, my friends. Um, you know, I don't know. I'd be interested to hear what my parents thought, you know, if they if they thought it helped their relationship. To me, it's helped my relationship with them, but I feel like they think I just hate them now, you know what I mean?

Tom 34:40

Um yeah, I feel like that's a common theme too, because like um uh you know, we were we were talking about this kind of with parents, but they say like, you know, your parents do the best they can with the tools they have, right? So there's a lot of understanding there of like, you know, you guys did your best, but at the same time, uh you are responsible for all of my developmental years, and any problem I have most likely stems from you. So I have to go through and identify that, and it's not like I hate you now, but it is like I have identified a lot of issues I have with you, or just things, and I feel like parents are people too, and they often take it very personally, and they Oh yeah. I mean it's it's it's um they don't want to hear that. I mean, they don't wanna they don't want to hear that they did anything wrong, you know, they put so much time and energy into you uh as like an an investment, basically, like so that you would turn out well and and often they like the way you turn out, and then you come around and you have feedback and they're like, right, what the hell is this feedback, bro? I'm done with the whole parenting thing. There's no notes, man. Put those away. We did good. And I mean, in a lot of ways, their goal is just to keep you alive, and like we should all be grateful for our parents for just keeping us alive for 18 years. Absolutely. Thank you. But um, yeah, it's complicated. I don't know.

Cody 36:01

Yeah, the the the hardest part, right, is because we're emotionally stunted because of the way that they are, and they're emotionally stunted, once you do this knowledge and this learning, get this knowledge, um and you take it back to them, it's like they're not equipped to discuss this because they are also emotionally stunted and have not gone through the counseling, right? So it's like now you're like a more informed and educated and you know in-tuned person, and you're taking you know all these issues that they've given you because of these issues, and then expecting them to understand it, and it's like it's uh obviously it's not gonna click, you know what I mean?

Tom 36:36

Yeah, um, so I guess you probably for the most part have to just set boundaries with people who don't understand why, too. And boundaries are human. How is the process of setting a boundary with someone who is not as equipped as you to understand the meaning, so then you just have but you have to just move forward with what you know. Oh, it's it's terrible. It's terri it's terrible.

Cody 37:00

I don't as a son, it's like you know, you try to set a boundary with your mother, you know what I mean? It's like you're ripping her heart out every time. You know what I mean? It's so it's like pulling her fingernails out, you know what I mean? It's like it's like, okay, mom, hey, I'm turning 30, you know, this is this is the you know, it's like I'm turning 30, you know, I don't think that I want to come over and have a birthday cake with you on my 30th birthday, you know, and it's like, well, why not? Like, oh, I'm I'm gonna go have dinner with my wife, you know, like, you know, and she's like, she can't conceptualize that, you know, and it's like, well, well, we want to celebrate with you, and it's like, I understand that. Like, I but I've done, you know, X amount of birthdays with you, you know what I mean? Or just, you know, um, I don't know. It it you know, a big thing was privacy, you know, and just respecting our boundaries, and it was, it was, it was just tough to get those boundaries out there. Um, you know, and it and it and it is just hard almost to like say it, you know what I mean? That was like the hardest part for me, right? Is it's like I know exactly what I need to tell her, but like you're looking at your mom and she's just like a sad little puppy dog, and it's like she's you just know she's gonna perceive this as like I don't love you. Yeah, it's like that's not what we're saying. I want to love you more, but to love you more, I need you less. You know what I mean? Like, just like so that's that's hard. It's very hard.

Tom 38:18

Yeah, yeah. I told you I didn't go home for Christmas this past year, and I know that did not go over well. And I am not forgiven for that, and I don't know if I ever will be, and I don't know, I don't even know how that's right.

Cody 38:29

Time time heals all wounds. I uh we're skipping Thanksgiving this year. So we'll see how that goes. Good luck. Yeah, we'll we'll see. We uh yeah, I don't know. We we literally you know I don't have a lot of PTO. We're trying to travel more, we're trying to have kids, right? We said that earlier. Um so it's kind of like now or never. Um I don't have the days, so it's like when we have days off, holidays, so sorry, mom and dad, I'm you know, I'm going. Um so something we're trying to do better about too.

Tom 38:58

But what about um like the tools that you have to process emotions? Like we talked about journaling um last time we hung out. Uh what in what ways do you just on your own, not between you and other people, but personally?

Cody 39:11

Yeah, I mean, journaling helps. Um I I think a big thing too something that really helps me, which is I don't know, I don't know, not to do my own horn, but you know, my a counselor and then you know my wife, and then my wife talks about it with her counselor, um, you know, and they all kind of you know look at what I'm doing and they're kind of like, wow, like you're you're you're picking this up pretty quick, right? You know, it's like most people develop these skills over a long period of time and you're kind of picking it up like pretty quickly and and developing whatever I don't know what you would call it, you know, um faster than most people or I'm processing it faster. And it's also like I feel like it helps when you're a blank slate, right? It's not like I it's not like I'm changing what I already knew, like there was nothing there. So I'm kind of just uploading some fresh information, you know what I mean? Um so I feel like that kind of helps, but to them they just perceive it as like they're used to like retraining people to think differently. Um so I I don't I don't know. I mean journaling, talking, but like the the the one thing that really helps me is the um is like the understanding of the process, right? Is like if I can you know if if if I snap at Natasha, you know, and she's like, hey, WTF man, like what's going on, um, and I can just like take a second or two to just kind of like process and think about like what just happened, why am I upset? Why am I giving that reaction? Um, then I can kind of perceive, you know, like the the the inner workings of like my my I don't know my brain, my psyche, I don't know what what you call it. Um, but I can kind of understand like what triggers like a defense mechanism um you know, or or causes the reaction, right? Um so I feel like that's very helpful um for me. So it's like a lot of reflection um and a lot of just like taking a minute throughout the day um just to like gauge where I'm at. Um Does the therapist help you with the reflect?

Tom 41:06

Like do you go tell a therapist like I snapped a Natasha and therapist is like, oh, it's probably because of this, or does have they just given you the tools to figure that out on your own?

Cody 41:15

Or so I've had pretty bad luck. She wants to talk about therapists. I've had uh I've gone to like four or five already, um just because people are like rotating.

Tom 41:22

Um they didn't like you, probably they didn't like me.

Cody 41:25

The no, yeah, they kept passing the puck. They're like, these guys have really fucked up. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Good luck with him. Um so I don't I don't know. The first lady claims that she went to go do something else, yeah, whatever, you know. Uh uh the lady just wasn't a great fit. The the third lady I thought was gonna be a good fit, and then her husband got sent overseas or something again, yeah, probably passed the puck. And then the the last lady um I looked out for. I by that time I'd kind of I felt like Ron Enough I was looking for more of like a specialized thing for ADD. Uh, Natasha's always telling me I'm ADD, so I got diagnosed with ADD too. Um so right, right. So that's so she so she wasn't helping me as much with processing um the emotions and stuff. She was more so like trying to help me cope with ADD um and um like kind of like depression type stuff. Um there's something called dysthymia. I don't know if you ever heard of that. Um it's super common in people about the age of 30 who are adult, uh, undiagnosed ADD people. Um and I don't think I had that. I think I was just struggling with some depressions uh since I've started counseling. Um that just that just that weight too, where it's like I I still compartmentalize where like I'll I'll push all the the feeling away. I'm like, okay, that's enough feeling for now. Like I'm done with this shit. Um and then I'll I'll feel good, and then I'll go back to counseling and I'll open up and I'm like, oh yeah, this shit's pretty hard, you know. I I don't feel really good about this. And then I get kind of like a depressive state again, right? Um so she was helping me to go through that um type of stuff and just management of that. Um and it's just there's no real management, it's just kind of like being aware, you know what I mean, and like understanding you're depressed and like getting out and doing stuff, you know what I mean? Like and I I just I would just you know when you when you're there, it's like hard to care about fitness, it's hard to care about you know, watching your tone, it's hard to care about you know friends and family, it's hard to care about your job, you know what I mean? It's like all these things just kind of like who fucking cares, you know what I mean? It's like so um, yeah. I mean the the the tools to to kind of monitor that, it's like they they definitely help you. Um but it's it's interesting, like the first lady, right? So her her her style was much more so like she'd ask this thought-provoking question, and then she'd kind of like let me just kind of like you, you know. She you you give me something, and then for better or worse, you let me talk for god knows how long, you know what I mean, until I lose my voice, you know. Um and and she would she would all of a sudden be like, Oh, what was that? you know, and then be like, oh, like I said something good. She liked that one, you know what I mean? She starts writing down notes, like, oh, oh, and uh, can we go into that? Like, oh, oh fuck, like what issue is this now? You know what I mean? Here's something. New, she's taking notes about you know what I mean. So it's like that was interesting because I feel like that was also the first time and it was like I just kind of talked about everything. Um I mean I I feel like I haven't answered your question here with uh you know tools. That's okay. I don't I don't I I I I don't know, you know what I mean. I feel like it's different for everybody. For me, it really is just helpful for me to process and understand what my mind is going through.

Tom 44:20

Um so having the place where you go talk and get it out and are forced to talk about things, that's like that seems to be like 90% of the journey for people. Like you just need to like go somewhere and have a space to discuss things and and that just in and has an effect throughout the rest of your life than just having that space.

Cody 44:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean it like you know, you start once a week, yeah. You adjust to once a month, you know what I mean? Uh once you're doing it. Um and it's so I feel like part of it was like the stigma of it, you know what I mean? It's like everybody's doing it, you know what I mean? Every every everybody's doing, you know, uh therapy, you know what I mean? It's like it's so funny people worry about it. It's like you I start talking about it, and it's like you start, oh you do that? Oh, I do that. Yeah, yeah, oh how you know it's like I more than 50% of the people that I interact with are doing therapy, you know what I mean? It's like they're afraid to talk about it. I don't know if I just don't care or I'm just unashamed about it, you know what I mean? But I I tell everybody, oh, oh, I fucking love it. I get to complain for an hour and just get it off my chest, man. You know what I mean? And then they they help me process it.

Tom 45:22

Um so I think the stigma's been killed over the past couple years for sure. Yeah. Like I feel like we're society, we're at a place where if you can uh afford it, you should do it, basically. Like even if you don't have a bunch of baggage from your childhood.

Cody 45:35

That's a big thing, right? Is the money though.

Tom 45:38

Yeah, like I we're Sabrina's graduating soon, so we're about to start, I think, like in the next couple months once her new job gets kicked up.

Cody 45:45

Yeah.

Tom 45:45

And I feel like there also probably is like a stigma about like couples therapy too, that I feel like we probably will just start with couples therapy because it's probably cheaper just to go in together or something and then I don't think it is.

Cody 45:56

It's not cheaper. No, we do that, we do that too.

Tom 45:59

Yeah, but so do you have a different couples therapist and and different solo therapists?

Cody 46:04

Yeah, you can't double dip.

Tom 46:05

So you have three different people, one for you, one for her, one for the couple? Yeah. Okay, yeah.

Cody 46:09

Yep, yep, yep. Because you can't you can't do the couple stuff with one of them because then they could be biased towards one of you.

Tom 46:14

Yeah, so but should you start it all at this like what which one should you get started first? The solo therapy.

Cody 46:22

I don't know. What do you need more? You know what I mean? It's uh it's up to you. Yeah. I mean to me, it's like if if you want to do the couples therapy, a lot of the stuff that you're gonna talk about is gonna be an issue with yourself, you know what I mean, first and foremost. You know what I mean? So it's like you you can't fix like the relationship until you fix yourself, right? You know what I mean? You can't you can't make something work if the parts are broken, you know what I mean. So it's like not that you get it broken, but like, you know what I mean? Like like like if I had done couples therapy first, then uh I feel like they would have just like sent me home. You know what I mean? Like, hey, like this is level two, you need to go back to level one, you know what I mean? Like, like you're you you got too many issues for this, you know. You want to talk about the the relationship? No, dude, like go figure yourself out, you know what I mean. Um so I would definitely advise going to to you know individual counseling first.

Tom 47:15

Um yeah, I think eventually we'd like to go to all of the above, but I just um probably can only afford one or the two at first, so maybe we'll do solos.

Cody 47:27

Yeah, I mean the the couples counseling I only know because that we we both get the same bill. So we so if you I'll get the bill for couples counseling, you know, she'll get her bill, and then you get the couples counseling bill, and we both get a bill. So there there's no difference. Oh you know what I mean? So it's like Okay, so it was not gonna save us any money, we just go to the solo. Yeah, I mean, depending on who you go through, it might be different, you know what I mean? But um is this remote? Yeah, that's the big thing, right? Is that that's what I was gonna say earlier, thank you. Uh, is you know, part of the stigma was going into the office, you know what I mean? And I feel like something that really helped kill the stigma is that you can just do it from home. You know what I mean? Nobody even knows you're going to counseling, dude. It's crazy. You know, it's like it's it's it's you know, they're taking a safe space and making it safer, you know what I mean? I feel like is is what's great. And I don't know. Part of that was COVID too, you know what I mean? Um, but yeah, I've never even gone in. I do it, you know, in my basement. Um, so it's good.

Tom 48:16

Yeah, something I was gonna say earlier when you had four different counselors, I had a similar situation with the personal trainer where I had four different personal trainers over the course of like six or seven months, and then I just stopped going like once the fourth one cancelled. Yeah, it's terrible. It was because like the whole I mean, obviously you want advice, and it was cool to get advice from different people, but you also just want someone there who knows you and like just gets to know you over time. Yeah, like that I just had such bad luck with these guys keep moving or leaving or getting fired. It was really random, but like that really stunted my my my fitness journey for a little bit. Um when I just couldn't figure out like a good trainer for me, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's it's uh yeah.

Cody 49:01

It's like how do you track a benchmark with somebody if they're new every other week, you know what I mean? So yeah. Yeah, therapy's good. Yeah, that's it. Good.

Tom 49:12

Go therapy. I feel like the people who need the therapy the most never go to right.

Cody 49:18

Well that's another yeah, right. You know, that's what you know you're saying the stigma's broken. It's like, yeah, but the stigma's not broken for my father. Yeah. It's not broken from my mother, you know what I mean? Like they would never go. You know what I mean? They're they're fine. What are you talking about? Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, the other argument is, you know, I'm 60. What the fuck do I need therapy for? I'm gonna die soon. You know what I mean? It's like, well, I don't know, you can make your life a little bit better, you know. I don't know. How quick are you dying, dad? You know? Um, but no. Yeah, they uh yeah, the more resistance is probably just the greater need. It's definitely correlated.

Tom 49:52

Definitely. Well, I feel like we haven't really talked about this directly yet. It's just come up, but like uh your relationship with Natasha seems to be like this big transformational part of your journey in kind of all like all roads seem to lead back here, right? So um maybe go into a little bit about like why you knew this relationship was worth like investing in and what kind of um what what what changed like before and after Natasha maybe?

Cody 50:21

I I I don't know, uh everything, you know, uh I don't know. I talked about with my friends um, you know, are trying to figure out like the next step of their relationship, right? You know, well what was it for you, right? You know, the last meeting is like I don't know, like the the the baseline is like when you wake up tomorrow is your life gonna be better or worse without that person, you know what I mean? Every day the rest of your life is that is it's just it's it's just that like you know are you are you gonna miss them? Are they are they gonna enhance your life? You know what I mean? And it's like hopefully the answer is yes, you know what I mean, and it's just like I I just could not imagine you know not having her there next to me. You know what I mean? It's like we beg her, we fight, we're human, you know what I mean? She pisses me off, I piss her off, you know, and it's just like at the end of the day, it's like I I could never imagine not being with her. You know what I mean? Um and you know, a lot of that comes from you know we'll joke, you know, like I'm uh I'm like the the the physical aspect of the relationship and she's like the mental aspect, right? You know, like we talk about this emotional enlightening like yeah, Natasha like jokes about like you know, she was dating a fucking rock, you know what I mean? She's like, you know, uh you know, Natasha has lupus, um, you know, there's different aspects of that too, um, with just her energy levels based on medications and sickness. Um, so like I pick up a lot of slack physically, and you know, she picks up the slack mentally, you know, and like I'm just like tired and can't think, you know, she'll she'll she'll just process information for us, like, okay, great, you know, whatever, fucking sign me up. Um, so um it's been very helpful just to have somebody to want to help me through that. You know what I mean? You know, it's like you're asking about the coping mechanisms or for for therapy, right? And it's like, I don't know, a lot of it is just having such a good person where I'll leave therapy and I'll basically just enter therapy 2.0 with her, you know what I mean? Like and just divulge all the information that we went through and just talk to her about or you know, hey, well, she said this, you know, what do you think about this? You know, what uh uh I was thinking about this, um, and just being able to rehash that with her. Um, you know, we'll do with her sessions too, and it's just like interesting and and it helps you learn each other more too.

Tom 52:43

Um Yeah. I feel like you care about the relationship an enough where that made you even decide to want to work on yourself in a way where it's like this relationship is worth going to therapy and this this life is worth maintaining and keeping up with, and it just seems like elevated you to uh just like I don't know, like I didn't care that much either before Sabrina, like about certain things, like it just it just raises the stakes, you know, sometimes across the board when it's something so important, you know.

Cody 53:14

Yeah, yeah, no, it's uh absolutely it's what it's one of those things where we were dating. Um I I always think about this quote from my cousin. So another one of these New Year's trips, right? Not not the one this was a year or two before I was, you know, at the peak of fatness, uh fat Cody. And uh and uh it was like the year before, and we're sitting outside, all the guys smoking cigars. And my one cousin's got this girl from there. Like, oh, she's pretty cool, man. You know, what's what are we thinking? What are we thinking? And apparently the girls are having the same conversation inside, right? So we're sitting there with the guys, and uh, you know, I'm with Natasha, very serious. The other guy's with uh dating my cousin, very serious. The other guy's my cousin's cousin, they're engaged. So it's like all three of us are pretty pretty locked in, and then my own cousin dating this girl. I don't know, man. I don't know. Like, oh, well, what do you mean? You know, and uh the girls are in there, and you know, the poor this poor girl is sitting there like, I think he's the one. I think he's the one. We're gonna get married, we're gonna get married soon. And I guess he'd talk to his sister, my other cousin, you know, and she's like, I don't fucking know, dude. You know, I don't know, you know, and she's like, You'd tell me, right? You'd tell me if he was gonna break up with me. And she's like, Yeah, I would. And she's put in this shitty situation, you know. And the quote, the point of the story, I'm rambling. The point of the story is my cousin is sitting outside and he's like, the the moral is, you know, I just don't think it's working because we get in a fight and I just don't care about like reconciling. I I just don't want to make her feel better, you know what I mean? And and it's like, he's like, that sounds shitty, but it's just kind of like you know, I just know that I don't have the emotional support for her because she doesn't do it for me. You know what I mean? And it's like that's a pretty good benchmark. You know what I mean? If you get in a fight and you're like, God, I just feel I feel like I we get in a fight, I feel like physically unwell. You know what I mean? I'm like, God, like I just like like I like itchy, like I'm like trying to like go hug her and she's like, don't touch me, dude, I'll piss to you. And it's like I need to, I need to, I need to like I need to feel like okay, you know what I mean? I feel like a spurned dog, you know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like if you don't feel that way, it's it's it's like, I don't know, it's like why why don't you care? You know what I mean? Don't you love that person? You know, and it's like so I don't know. That really made me think, and and that's a pretty good um, I feel like way to to to just gauge it, right? Yeah, you know, um if you really care about that person, you're gonna want to fix that and you know rectify the situation. And if you don't, it's a pretty pretty good sign to probably just stop wasting your time. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Was that your question? Again, I'm sorry, but I'm bad at this.

Tom 55:48

I mean, it's not always a question. Sometimes I like I think I just said something, but like it's not always a point of question, but uh yeah, it seems like um I that was just an observation that it seemed like you care so much about this, and that is propelled a lot of your journeys since then, um, just because you care that much. But aside from that, it does seem like you guys do make a really good team. Like you said, there's a little bit of physical, mental, like just you're good at something, she's good at other. It's very it's also compatible and just um yeah, it seems like it's been a good healthy balance for you guys over the past couple years. Yeah, definitely and able to grow together and certain, I don't know, just certain aspects of your guys' journey just seems strengthened, you know what I'm saying, by the relationship. Do we ever do um advice to people in their younger 20s?

Cody 56:40

This is all advice. What do you mean? All of it?

Tom 56:43

This is all advice.

Cody 56:44

Uh I don't know. Um Natasha's a financial planner. So Mary a financial planner. Mary a financial planner, that would be great advice. Um I got a lot of friends who are struggling to save money now because they don't have a financial planner. Um so I've been very lucky to have her. Uh so uh Mary Financial Planner, if not, save as much as you can. Um but still have fun, you know what I mean? So find balance of putting away money and spending it, you know. I don't know. Something Natasha tells me I used to be very quick trigger, is like sit on it for a few weeks, and if you still want it after like three weeks of thinking about it, you can buy it, and if you've already moved on to something else that you want, you probably don't need it. You know what I mean? I don't know. Advice. Uh I don't know. You're a big fitness guy, right? I I don't know. Uh don't load your back. You know, there's there's no need to go that heavy anymore, guys. Uh, unless you're a professional athlete, probably not happening anymore. You know, start training for children, you know, work work on your joints, your knee joints. I don't know. So it's like I was playing about playing rugby again with my buddy, you know, live relive the glory days. Why, dude? You're 30. You put that shit away. You know what I mean? Go play pickleball. You know what I mean?

Tom 57:58

That's like uh Oh, yeah, wait, I heard you guys have been playing a lot of pickleball. Yeah, I'm obsessed with pickleball.

Cody 58:03

Because we're getting old. Tasha, send me some stupid TikTok. I'm not on TikTok, get off that shit. It's killing your brain. Um uh, but I mean, it was so funny. It was like this guy was like, I'm a pickleball trainer. Every 30-year-old who is uh cardiovascularly challenged and uh and and needs a hobby, it pays me a lot of money to tell him just to get the ball over the fucking net. You know, it's like it's so true. You go out to these courts here, I don't know how it is in Florida, but like there are like so many courts here in Arlington, so many. And they're they're they're like these people are just out there, and it's like people that are very good, people that like you can't get the ball over the net. It's it's so funny. Um though now the biggest the the biggest issue is finding a court to play on. Because I don't know how it is there, but they got this like rotational system. You put your paddles in a little slot and then you slide the thing down so the next four go, the next four go. You don't it's not like it's not like king of the court, you know, you win, you stay on. You four people rotate on every time. Wow. Um so it's like good, but it's also kind of like sucks once you're on there. Um but yeah, I love pickleball. You know, my but the biggest thing I like about it is I tell Natasha, you know, Natasha, we're 30? We could play this until we're 80. Imagine how good we'll get, you know what I mean? Like I can't play rugby, I can't play basketball that long, you know what I mean? My body's gonna give out. Um, you know, so I'm I'm really turning to tennis, pickleball, and golf. That's my that's my big three now.

Tom 59:24

I'm not golf, but I do like tennis a lot. I just I've never played before, but I I just did one one little lesson recently, and I'm like, I liked it. And I'm like, ooh, okay, this is it. These are my new sports.

Cody 59:33

You can pickleball and tennis, I feel like there's a lot of translation. Um I don't know.

Tom 59:39

And you know, I played soccer growing up, I can still play soccer, but it's just not the same as it was, you know. So it just seemed like time to start something new. And uh a friend in my neighborhood, we're both just obsessed with it. He's like he's in his 30s, and like we just play like three, four times a week, and we're starting to get like a group together.

Cody 59:56

Yeah.

Tom 59:57

And like, I don't know about you, but I was obsessed with ping pong as a kid, and pickleball is very ping pong-esque.

Cody 1:00:03

It's way more ping pong than tennis. Yeah, definitely tennis, which is good and bad. You know, uh, I wasn't that big on ping pong. Okay. My my cousins were too good, and my dad was too good, so I never I fucking hated it because I was lost. Yeah. So uh no, I mean I'm not bad. I think I'm better at pickleball. Um but yeah.

Tom 1:00:26

And tennis, like I feel like um socially, I feel like I would like tennis. Like, so many guys play golf. I don't play golf, I'm not really into it. So like if we want to join like a country club someday, like get close with people, like I'm gonna have to have the tennis as like my in, I think.

Cody 1:00:43

The problem with tennis is here here's my selling point for pickleball over tennis. Okay, you take somebody to a pickleball court, they can play pickleball. Yeah, they might be bad, but there's such a low bar to entry to play pickleball. You take somebody to a tennis court, it's like fucking torture. They never played tennis, it is miserable. You know what I mean? It's like pickleball, it's like okay, you can kind of hit it to them. It's it's kind of going at them anyway. It's such a small court, you know. You got a 50-50 chance, and you can kind of hit that shit so hard, it'll still probably be in if they're that uncoordinated. You know what I mean? You hit like give somebody tennis racket and tennis ball, they're hitting it out of bounds every single time. You know what I mean? Or they're whiffing. Yeah. So I mean, that's why pickleball to me is like the best sport for, you know, it's it's right for, you know, you know if you're looking to get into something, it is like such a low barrier to entry. And you can get a crappy uh paddle from um Amazon for like 20 bucks, you know what I mean? So it's like it's it's it's great. I mean, you can get like two for like 30 or something, you know. I mean, it's it's I love it.

Tom 1:01:45

It's great on your knees. I ended up getting like some hundred dollar paddles or something. I was I was investing, man.

Cody 1:01:50

Oh, you're a financial planner, man. That's what I was saying. Come on. I got yelled at for getting the step up for getting two for sixty, you know, like thinking it would make a difference in my game. You know, she was like, why? You know, so no a hundred bucks, that's uh you must be very good.

Tom 1:02:06

Yeah, I well I played like like 40 games with some guy first with his paddles, yeah, and he had nice ones, and I'm like, I'm not gonna get something way lower quality than his, but I started using his too much. Gotcha. Where it was like he was like, Man, you gotta get your own paddles. I'm like, okay, fine. And at that point I knew I liked the game enough too to invest a little bit. Yeah. But yeah, man. It was pretty nice. Uh so was rugby like your your most played sport, like your favorite sport growing up, or what what else what else did you play?

Cody 1:02:38

Yeah, I mean, um rugby I played just senior high school, uh all throughout college, and then um I played some men's league after graduating. Okay.

Tom 1:02:48

Um so that's a vicious sport, right? That's like I don't know. I think I think it's dangerous, one of the most dangerous sports, right?

Cody 1:02:56

I mean I would disagree. I think anybody that's played rugby would disagree. Okay. Um why um the rules, you know, you just because you have no padding, there's I there's it's a lot better rules, you know. I feel like football's trying to catch up and make it safer. Football is way more dangerous, I think, because you have stupid people who lead with their head. You know, stupid people, even if they play rugby, aren't gonna lead with their head because they're still afraid. You know what I mean? Number one. Number two, like tackling, you know, you can throw your body any which way, you know. In rugby, you have to wrap up and make a form tackle and take to the ground. You can't just like shoulder somebody, push them over. That's illegal, you know what I mean? You can't hit anybody that doesn't have the ball. Um, you can't hurdle over anybody, there's no cleats, you know. Um, so there's there's a lot of things um that happen, you know, that like people get heated up, you know, the same thing happens on a football field. The difference is they have a helmet on, you know what I mean? So like you get that gets ripped off or whatever, you know what I mean? But like 90% of the time the helmet is kind of you know putting you at risk because it's a that false safety net, you know what I mean? Um so you the the same big hits that happen at rugby happen in football, you know what I mean? And um I I think it's so much safer. I've seen way more injuries on a football field than I have on a rugby field. Okay. You know what I mean? And I've played rugby two to three times longer than football. You know, I played football for three years in high school and a little bit in college at a D3 school, and it's like I saw way more injuries there than I ever saw on a rugby pitch.

Tom 1:04:22

So yeah, I feel like because I don't understand rugby, it just looks chaotic to me. But if like specifically what you said about you can't hit someone that doesn't have the ball, I know like in football you get cracked all the time. Like and when no like everyone's looking over here, including the refs, you might just get the shit kicked out of you over here, and then no like that person knows they're not gonna get a penalty called on them because no one's paying attention, and like you can just really do some damage to somebody who's just standing there like straight up, not ready for it.

Cody 1:04:52

And and that's and that's a factor of having an asshole on the field, right? Yeah, you have assholes in rugby too, you know what I mean? So you could still get punched by somebody when the rough doesn't see it, you know what I mean? But that's a that's not the sport, that's the person, right? You know what I mean? And maybe you say that the sport attracts different people, but I I think it attracts the same people, you know what I mean? Um just depends on what you want to do or what you're exposed to, you know what I mean.

Tom 1:05:15

Did you train for rugby? Like did you go lift a bunch and stuff to like?

Cody 1:05:18

I mean in college you would um when you played there, but like Was that important to being good or No, the beauty about rugby too is like you've got all sorts of body types, right? So like I played at 230, you know, one of my best friends was like 180. Um, you know, I you got guys that are like 260, 270, 300, you got guys that are 150, you know what I mean, and it's just different positions.

Tom 1:05:43

Do you miss just like the team camaraderie and everything? Like I kind of with pickleball, yeah. Is just like I miss kind of being part of a group of guys, like a team, like just kind of having that I don't know, like group mentality mindset, just social group to be a part of, you know.

Cody 1:06:00

That's like the main the main draw, right? That's like the main like at this point, right? It's like I know I'm not gonna go out there and be a fucking superstar, you know what I mean? Like I got a bad back, my body's letting me out, but it's like you just wanna go out, you can still probably lay a fucking hit on somebody, you know what I mean? You can still pass the ball pretty well, you can still make a run, you know what I mean? But like the main attraction is getting out there and just meeting new guys, right? And and just that camaraderie, yeah, the the the uh just the companionship, you know what I mean, and and just the the that that uh anybody who's played this you know sports is like just that connection through like having a really hard practice, that shitty practice, everybody hates it, and then like you get up and you're like, man, like that was awesome, you know what I mean? That like that just that feeling of like accomplishment, right? Like, oh man, like and we did that together, you know what I mean? That just you can't get it any other way, right? You know what I mean? It's like you know, nothing as hard, you know, but it's like going to boot camp, you know what I mean? It's like these guys are brothers for life after that, right? You know, they went through and they accomplished something so hard, you know. It's that same energy um, you know, that's accomplished. That that's what I miss, you know what I mean, is like that that uh shared bond, you know what I mean?

Tom 1:07:07

So what about golf? Am I missing out by not doing golf? I don't know. I feel it's a whole world, I just don't want to get pulled into it.

Cody 1:07:14

I the the question is do you have clubs? No, I don't know. Okay, don't don't start playing golf.

Tom 1:07:18

Yeah, I just feel like it's too much of a time pull. Like I just will be out there all the time and like I'm not I don't know, running around like I don't know.

Cody 1:07:26

It's it the the hard the hardest part is like getting clubs, you know what I mean? And then and that's just the the it's so expensive to get into, right? So like you get you if you can find cheap clubs, sure, you know, I I wouldn't pass them up, but like I don't know. I like to golf, but like I've kind of done it my whole life, you know what I mean? I'm not that good. I don't think anybody's really good at golf. You know, the pros, you know, you watch, you know, these guys were they couldn't get out of a bunker, you know, this past weekend, you know what I mean? It's so like I I felt like I was watching my dad play, you know what I mean. It's like, dude, you're a professional, you know what I mean? So like nobody's really good at golf, these guys are just more consistent, you know what I mean, is what I would say. Um obviously they're pretty fucking good, they're professionals, but I I I'm trying to make myself feel better. Um but uh no, I mean golf's great. I like it. I I play um I play um equivalent to my level, so I only play in like very shitty cheap courses. Um I pay like 20, 30 bucks in Virginia. I don't know how it is in Florida. Um, Florida probably has a lot nicer courses. I don't know if it's more cost effective. Um but like here at Virginia has a lot of great courses that are like maintained by parks, so they're only like 20, 30 bucks. They're not really that great, but they're but they're cheap and they're accessible, you know what I mean? So it lets me go out and and hack about for a few hours and feel like I did something different, you know what I mean? Um I don't know. It's nice. I like to walk around, it's better than sit on the couch, you know, or you know, doing something else. Um I I I I was gonna say I love it. I don't really love it, you know, but it's uh it's fun and like if you want to spend the money, you can go see some beautiful courses, and it's like that's that's what I enjoy the most is just getting out, and it's kind of like an active hike, right? It's like you're you're hiking at the same time, but you're dragging some expensive shit around and you know, frustrating yourself every other swing.

Tom 1:09:12

Yeah, from my perspective, it seems just like an excuse for dudes to go hang out outside and like hang out, talk.

Cody 1:09:19

Yeah, I mean you could you could also just go on like vacation, you know what I mean, or just go for a hike, you know what I mean, which is free. You know what I mean? So um there is definitely like more reward as far as like like that was a nice shot, you know what I mean? And it's like it's like anything, you know, it's like you hit one nice shot, it's enough to get you to come back because it's like, oh, I could recreate that. And like No, you can't because you're you're you're a sucker, you know what I mean? You've you've you've you've fallen for the bait, but it's like you need one good shot and you'll be able to play again.

Tom 1:09:45

I heard of something called the golfer's mentality of like it was kind of something you could apply to the rest of your life, but like golfers they always they golf all day and then they have that one shot to go home and talk about, right? They know how to focus on that one win and they know how to like basically champion this one moment of their day. Right, right, right. And and and use that to kind of get through, and that's kind of mentality maybe you can apply to other areas of your life, you know.

Cody 1:10:09

Yeah, I mean, hopefully, hopefully your life's better than your golf game. You know what I mean? Um I if that's how you're living your life, I'm sorry, because if you only have one thing to focus on, that's pretty bad, but uh it's not a bad thing, it's not a bad idea, you know? It is a good skill to have. It is the only way I continue to golf, so yeah.

Tom 1:10:30

What about the hair? I feel like the hair is important. Uh well, what's important about the hair? I just remember you were growing it out, and then um we talked about it at the wedding at one point. You were like, man, yeah, I just knew I needed to have the long hair at the wedding. It was more me, you know what I'm saying? And I felt I felt like I was growing going through something as well when I grew my hair out. I I don't know if it was like a quarter life crisis or something, but I was I just felt like I needed to be the long hair guy for a minute. What is that? I haven't even figured it out, but like do you feel you you said you felt more yourself with the long hair, or like what is your relationship to it?

Cody 1:11:06

I I think uh we We're going back to the therapy conversation now where uh I don't know, I think it was more so just a control thing of you know, like I don't think I like you know, my mom used to try and dress me every day. She would control what I looked like, you know what I mean? So it's like I mean you kind of finally realize like, oh, I could grow my hair on, so I did it. You know, and even like you know, you know, now it's like, you know, again, again, we've said this a few times. I'm fucking 30 two days, you know. My mom is still trying to get me to cut my hair. You know what I mean? She's like, You look so much better with short hair. Well, it's not your fucking decision, mom, so it's staying, you know what I mean? So it's like that's what it is, you know. It's just like it's just a control thing, you know what I mean? Even now I'm like kind of thinking, like, oh, maybe I should cut it, it's getting kind of hard. Um, I don't really let it down as much anymore. I kind of keep it up all the time. So we'll see. We'll see how long it lasts. But yeah, it definitely was kind of just like therapeutic to to do it and to be able to just say like I'm keeping it, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um I don't know.

Tom 1:12:02

I don't dislike it. I feel like every man goes on a journey, they have to grow their hair out or something. I don't know, dude. I had to. I knew I had to, and then I did, and I I don't I don't fully understand why. It probably is a control thing too.

Cody 1:12:14

Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's definitely a little bit like I feel like I feel like I had a lot of friends who like in middle school had long hair who had like that Justin Bieber shit, you know what I mean? And so it was like they got it out of their system. They were allowed to grow their hair out, and like now it's like, oh no, this isn't a very functional haircut, like I need to just have a short haircut um because it's easier to get up and go to work, you know what I mean? You don't have to do anything. And I didn't have that, so I'm doing it now.

Tom 1:12:41

It's not very important, but I was always sad, like you grew your hair out, then I grew my hair out, then you cut yours, and then you grew it out again, and we didn't have long. I just feel like we didn't have that long hair movement.

Cody 1:12:51

We were like both like yeah. We were like off-cycle, yeah, yeah. Like we didn't know we never synced up. No, I know, I know.

Tom 1:12:57

Because whenever I had long hair, then I saw someone else with long hair, it was like, yo, yeah. Well, like this moment.

Cody 1:13:03

The first time I did it, it was for from money at my last job.

Tom 1:13:07

Wait, tell that story then.

Cody 1:13:08

Um so I I just kind of had the the curly fro just poof ball, like a q-tip going, and uh my office said, you know, if you can make it to the end of the year. It started, I think, at like 300 bucks. Like, hey, if you make it the end of the year, I'll give you 300 bucks. And then, you know, this this got spread around the office. Um, it became eventually became like $800. People started throwing more money in, like, oh, you do that, I'll give you, I'll give you, you know, $100 too. No way you make it that long, no way. Um, and then it became it literally became uh, I don't know, probably like this length, you know, not not super long, but not like short. It was definitely long. Um and it was it was St. Patrick's Day, March 17th, before COVID. Um they went out and got drunk, the owners of my business, um, and they came back and were like, we'll give you double the money if you go get a mullet right now. You gotta keep it till September. They're like, well, give me some up front, you know what I mean? So it was like 1600 total payout if I kept it till September, and I like asked them to to wear shorts and Birk and stocks on Fridays, you know what I mean, just to you know, whatever, get whatever I could. And then they gave me 600 up front. So we went to the fucking barbershop and they shaved the sides, and I had a mullet, and they like put lines in my head, and it looked like I looked like an idiot. But so that was the first time I grew the hair out. It was I had like this mullet. And so then the best part is you know, they did all this and they paid me six hundred bucks, and then I started working from home. And then I had long hair, I started a new job, I got a haircut for the new job. I never got to sixteen hundred, they only got to six hundred um because they were pissed that then I'd quit. Um you know, uh so I mean I got six hundred bucks to grow my hair out, it's better than you know, most things.

Tom 1:14:54

That's sad though. They owe you the sixteen hundred, dude.

Cody 1:14:56

Only only a thousand more, only thousand more. But uh yeah, if I mean if you guys are listening, I'd love the I'd love the money.

Tom 1:15:01

One question I like to ask at the end, then we'll do this and then we'll we'll call it a day. It's like um, what do you think the meaning of life is?

Cody 1:15:12

I I don't know. Mean the meaning of life this is how you like to end? You think it's lame? The meaning of life. No, I mean it's lame. I think I think we're trying to stop. You're gonna give me talk for another 30 minutes. Uh last question. Oh, the meaning of life.

Tom 1:15:30

You can't just end on hair, bro. You gotta make it like more epic than that.

Cody 1:15:36

I don't know. It's like the pursuit of happiness. I don't know, being a good person. I think if you're a good person, you'll find happiness. So I don't know. I guess it's being a good person. I don't know. Leave the world better than you found it. I don't know, man. What do you want me to say? I'm not fucking Gandhi, you know what I mean? Like uh my meaning of life, the purpose of life I I would like to have a kid who, you know, has it better than I do. I don't know. Make sure my dogs don't get hit by a car. That's what I mean, I don't know. That's a good one. Dominion of life, dude? I don't know. What do you mean? What do you want? Meaning of life. I I would be very happy if like the Knicks won the world championship, you know, the NBA finals. Are you a Knicks fan? Yeah, we're finishing, we're wrapping up. We don't need to get into this. Yes, I am. Uh all right. Meaning of life, I don't know.

Tom 1:16:26

You gave you gave a couple good reads and like like things. We can end on that. Well, anyways, man, I appreciate you sharing your story with me, dude. Seems like um, you know, you've done a lot of growth, especially in this therapeutic area, man, that I'm probably about to embark on soon. Uh I haven't really started that whole process yet, so I'm nervous and it's easy. It helps a lot for people like me to hear that. Yeah. Hear that we can go through it. And um yeah, man, I I'm just uh I feel like you and Natasha have something really good, something that I strive for, and I feel like you guys have are just got a lot of potential ahead of you, and I'm excited. And I just really honored you guys allowed me to come here and interview you both. It's been a great time.

Cody 1:17:09

It's a pleasure.

Tom 1:17:12

No, that's not happening.