Blake Pastrana: How to Level-Up Your Life | #47

Blake Pastrana shares his remarkable journey from humble beginnings to achieving resounding success. In this conversation, he delves into the habits and mindset that have helped him throughout his career. 

This episode was recorded in early 2022

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Transcript

Tom 0:00

Yeah. Alright. So um we already kind of talked about this, but the when you come on the podcast, we usually have a like a technical conversation, right? And I've kind of rebranded since then. So we discussed maybe talking about kind of like your life story. Um right. I've I've known you for a while. So you grew up in a small town in Southern Virginia. You went to JMU and then you worked for Accenture and now you're a project manager at Capital One, right? Is that the Yeah, yeah.

Blake 0:32

Well, I'm I'm just a developer manager. Okay. Just a I don't manage the product, but yeah.

Tom 0:40

Okay. But you manage a team of developers at Capital One now, right?

Blake 0:45

I do, yeah.

Tom 0:46

Okay. So I I'm always been really impressed with like your story and just kind of where you came from to where you are now. So I was hoping we could just kind of do a deep dive and talk a little bit starting from where you came from and maybe get to get to the end, you know, by the end of this episode. Is that cool?

Blake 1:06

Yeah. Yeah, no, that sounds awesome. Um I'd love to like think back. It's like really important to me too, because I'm I'm really like risk retrospective on like where I came from and like and also proud of it at the same time. But uh I started out, I I grew up in a really small town. There's one main stoplight in the whole town, um, just like in the main intersection, and that was it. Um really rural, it's right along the North Carolina border. I my bus ride used to be like an hour, hour and a half, because we had to go up the mountain on the bus, which is a very slow, long process. So, like really out in the boonies. Like that that's trying to the picture I'm painting here. And as you can imagine, there's not like a a lot of tech out there. There's a certain stereotype of like more rural backwoods, like redneck, but there's also just like just like regular country people, like you know, down-to-earth, um, not a lot of tech related stuff. So that was just kind of like where I was born and born and raised in and what I in the environment that I grew up, and I always thought that I was a little different. Um, I always was a little more eccentric. Um, also really loved music and and art, um and and just didn't quite fit the mold. Um and so I I knew that like this was my starting point, but it's not like where I wanted to end up at.

Tom 2:26

Okay. Yeah, that was one thing I was actually gonna ask you, is is did you realize that you didn't fit into that culture and and was it obvious always? Or was there so was there ever a point in time where you didn't have dreams of doing something else? Like when how young did you start realizing you want to kind of move out of the town? Like always?

Blake 2:50

Yeah, that's a great question. Um probably around middle school, I got a little that was when I really like I was getting into like the edgy, like punk rock phase, you know, and that like is way different for country people. Like I I don't know, it was just like kind of like a black sheet there, and I just like kind of was like sticking out. I I was like wearing like you know, like tight jeans and I was straightening my hair, like a way big difference. Um and like I could just tell that I was not sitting in there, and then I but at the same time it always like had my grades up and I was like I was really passionate about learning and I really enjoyed schoolwork. Um and props to my mom for dealing on that into me. Like that's the number one reason I think that I am where I am today. But um Yeah, I think around middle school I realized like this place is not it for me. Like after getting bullied enough times, I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna do my own thing, I'm gonna carve my own path. Um but it's kind of interesting you mentioned that because at the same time, uh around my senior year, I kind of flipped the switch and was like, I'm gonna make these people learn to love me. And I really like I really dove into that and in that energy and trying to be kind and like resonate and really like connect with like everyone, like from people on the football team to the people in the marching band to like really like make everyone feel comfortable um and and really talk and get to know everyone. And that kind of like really came to a head when I was like homecoming king. That was like just an awesome experience because like it had been years since like the drum major or anyone in the marching band had won that, and like it felt like a really big turning point where it's like I did make everyone learn to love me after years of getting bullied and made fun of being different. Like it was just like it really all came to a head then, which was awesome.

Tom 4:41

Hmm. Okay, let's um go back before then we jumped to this big shift that happened senior year. So kind of set me up for like what kind of person you were then more in middle school with the video games, getting bullied. Like what what kind of person is that? What what kind of um I don't know, what kind of like feelings and emotions did it does it have to feel like you don't fit in and to kind of be like stuck and frustrated then in an area that because I I feel like it's not very obvious to to everyone that you can leave your hometown or you might fit in somewhere else. So what what kind of what was the problems with life before this switch up senior year?

Blake 5:24

Yeah. It was definitely just the feeling of of belonging. Um like even further back in history, like I um never met my biological father. So I was living with my mom and my stepdad who adopted me, so I took on his last name. Um so I just like not felt like uh uh a connection with my stepdad at times, um, and and feeling like I had to like prove something to him or like earn his love um to get it, feeling like I wasn't fitting in with the people at school. I just felt like really like reserved um and and like that I I had something to prove and that I was just gonna take it and and do things on my own. Um I I got close with some like the wrong crowd, basically, and I started you know getting into things that teenagers and middle schoolers shouldn't be getting into. Um and then and that kind of took me down a dark path in life. Um and it all like turned around when I actually got caught with drugs by my mom. Um I was trying to sneak drugs onto a a banned field trip, right? And like that like devastated her. And she went like full nuclear parent, which was awesome, which was like the biggest turning point for me. Um and that was like the moment that like switch I was like, okay, I I know that I don't belong. I have this feeling, but I'm gonna use that in a positive way instead of using it for a negative way that I had in the past, which was just feeling like angry at the world for no reason and feeling like kind of alone. Um so I I learned to use that as more of a um uh a benefit for me rather than uh, you know, pain or or suffering.

Tom 7:04

Mm-hmm. Okay, so you took the fact that you didn't belong and and maybe had a realization that this makes you unique and this makes you stand out and able to like connect with people and be different. And then yeah, man, I've I've had similar situations where I've gotten in trouble. Mostly actually the situations in college, when I I've gotten arrested in college, uh and you know, sometimes sometimes life forces you to switch it up, you know what I'm saying, even when you're not ready to. And I was talking to Wheezy recently saying he was saying how you know his parents would force him to do stuff, and I feel like part of maturing and becoming an adult is realizing that those things that your parents are making you do, or society, because sometimes society will check you if if your parents don't, you know, but these things are things that you need to work through and move through, or else you're not gonna make it to the next checkpoint, you know.

Blake 8:00

Yeah, yeah, totally. You know what's funny, I think one of the like one of the punishments from from getting in trouble like that was my mom took away all of my like band t-shirts, um, had a buzz cut my hair, which I was like I said, I was straightening. So like and like as a kid that was like edgy like that, right? Like I I that was my whole personality, I thought, right? Was like my fashion and the way that I was different. And like having that stripped away from me, I think was like what made me realize, right, like, oh wait, I you know, is it the clothes doesn't make doesn't make me um it's like who I am. And that's kind of like really gave me like an introspective thing. I realized like I was like I was being edgy for the sake of being edgy, and I thought it was all just related to like how I presented myself. And like it really m allowed me to like reduce me to the base form to realize like who I wanted to be and like w how I wanted to act.

Tom 8:53

Mm-hmm. Yeah, man. Uh as I've mentioned, dude, like this podcast has taken like a shift towards you know self-improvement and like motivation and stuff. And I've realized how important identity is to like your motivation, to your pursuits and goals and dreams in life. Because, you know, when I was building the app, like I felt like my identity was like entrepreneur. And since then, I I'm still an entrepreneur, but uh my identity has shifted towards podcaster. And it's just crazy, like when you when you grab onto a new identity, it's crazy how much changes in your life. Everything like I read books all the time now just because I'm like, well, I'm a podcaster, I have to know things now, you know? And just that little bit of like a mindset switch completely changed all of my my my mini goals and habits and and day to day and month to month. It's just completely different with the the switching identity, you know, from student to um you know accountant to whatever you identify as, you know. So I'm curious, what so what what was your identity? What is an emo kid or like goth kid? What what what even is that identity? And then what is the new identity of because I know that you became prom king, but after you're not the goth kid anymore, what is the new identity? You know, I feel like that's how you define it in like looking back on it, but what is what was the new identity that you formed and how did that how did that shape your goals and dreams and habits?

Blake 10:24

Yeah, well, I think the the previous one, right, was like I had this wrong perception of what like a scene kid, emo kid, pump kid like had. Like I thought it was really based in the the the clothes and the culture and the fashion, and I realized it was me, like I was trying so hard to be different that I was conforming to like that side of it and like trying to be it, not doing what I wanted on that side, but I was trying to conform to the fact that I was being trying to be different so hard. And what really changed in me, my new identity was realizing that I am different, but there also are some similarities too, and I don't have to be all of one way, I don't have to be completely against everything and and and you know not lacking anything that's mainstream. I can blend the two sides because that's actually who I am. That's an actual, you know, true representation of who I am, just like where it is for most people, right? It's not completely one way or the other. So just like the new identity was learning to just do what I wanted to do and and be unapologetic for it, right? Like if I wanted to wear skinny jeans, I would. But if I wanted to, you know, hang out with some of the country kids, I would and and have that perspective with me and like learn from them the good things there is to learn, realize what I didn't like about it, and and keep that with me in the back of my mind, and vice versa. And just like just really being true to myself instead of trying so hard to fit in what I thought that I should be trying to to the lane that I was trying to stay in.

Tom 11:59

So, in a lot of ways, like a like an identity of someone who's emo is is a lot of just rejection of like conservative American culture, you know, just like the the opposite of whatever, you know, the the Southern culture wanted you to be, you know, kind of like that, I guess. Is that a good way of describing it?

Blake 12:21

Yeah, yeah. It was really Yeah, and like it it's it's really different for every single area. And for me, it was probably and it's also different, I guess, depending on the age, too. But for me, it was really like making a stand with appearance to like to to visually showcase like and make it apparent to everyone around you that you are not like them and you reject their ideas of normality and they're gonna have to deal with it. You're gonna be an eyesore to them, right? Like it was like you can take one glance and you can know that you're not gonna get along with that person. It was like trying to grind their gears, right? And it was like in a weird way, like that's its own kind of conforming, like problematic thing, just as much as it is just like trying to fit in on the on the other side. So it was like kind of interesting to to take a look at that dilemma.

Tom 13:09

Yeah. And then when you when you when you create your whole identity around standing out or being different or or rejecting a certain culture, you're gonna miss out on any like I'm sure that there's you know, from your eyes, there wasn't a lot of positive things about that culture, but any positive thing, you're gonna miss out on it, right? You're gonna you're gonna be left behind on any sort of, you know, just that mindset of just rejecting s everything else is is just a dangerous thing to attach to your identity. I feel like, you know, if you wanted to like readjust it later in life and still dress that way, but not have such um anti-culture attitude about it, then you could like pick out what you like and don't like and accept certain aspects of culture, you know what I'm saying, without going in the polite opposite direction, you know.

Blake 14:02

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that mindset allows you to make everything that you experience and every different idea that you come across a learning opportunity, right? Like if you if you can learn to recognize that there is value in everything, even if it disagrees with what you thought that you originally um had in in mind, like you can use that to take the positives of that and use that to make yourself better or to um take your idea further or whatever. And that that's kind of like the whole thing that kind of like really changed and really has been my driving force behind that. Was like once I learned that, it's like, okay, hey me, I'll hang out with the jocks and I'll pretend like I'll hang with them, right? I'll hang out with the country kids, I'll hang out with the band kids, I'll hang out with the emo kids, like and just like learn to like be able to thrive and adapt and and and and take the knowledge from all that. And that kind of shifted too, like later when I was introduced to different cultures, which obviously is not a lot in Southern Virginia. Um, I was able to take and learn so much about all these different cultures that I'm now getting the experience and and learn from those and take the positive from those um and just really use it to uh to my own benefit.

Tom 15:11

Okay, yeah, man. So a lot of the big shift that happened senior year is just becoming an open-minded person mostly, right? Like you're you're just open to all these different types of people, all these different types of cultures now, and that just was transformative. You you needed a new identity to kind of cling on to, but then what how how did you identify yourself other than open-minded, and what what other changes kind of occurred as far as like what your new identity, I guess? Was it was there one, or does that shape later in in college, you know, as as you get into college?

Blake 15:48

Yeah, no, I think there definitely was one, and it was it still had like the aspects of kind of like the scene like dress where it was like um, you know, I was a performer, I was a musician, right? So I I was really big into band. So I had this like performer aspect to it. I like being the center of attention. I like being, you know, um seen and and and talks to, and I like putting on shows, things like that. That's why I like got into Matic, that's why I like I did all these different things. I was a waiter. Um so it was really just about like uh I don't know, like learning from all those different cultures, and then also just like presenting myself like it and being loud and outspoken in my own way. Um and so I was just trying to be kind of like the center of attention, but in a different way than you would normally expect it or see it, I guess.

Tom 16:42

Got it. Okay. What about um just from like a successful perspective? Um why what do you attribute, you know, uh getting out of your small town, getting into college? Was were you just naturally smart and this just kind of happened naturally for you? Did you have to try really hard? Did you have to figure out like a long-term goal and that pushed you to to get to college? Like what and and maybe what advice would you give to someone who's stuck in their small town and who wants to get out? What and what kind of like small habits and just um little things help like added to your success, you know, around this time?

Blake 17:23

Yeah. I so I think one of the biggest things that I I really am so thinking for my mom instilling like um learning in me and and the importance of of learning and and and being attentive in school and like knocking it out. Um because that really, really like set me up for success living on, and I think that was a really big key. So I I think just sticking to the the studies and like realizing like just knocking it out as early as you can and sticking to it and having a family member that's supportive, which is awesome, which I know is not inside of everyone's control, but that definitely helped set me up for success. And then after that, it was realizing um, you know, what I wanted to do at the moment, like whatever it may be, setting my my mind on it and then charging forward and trying to achieve that, no matter what outside forces said no, no matter what circumstances, right? Like there were so many different phases where I was like, I'm gonna be uh a music educator, right? And so I just went full force into that. I I really believe in that and I and I just drove to it. And it turns out that I didn't want to be that. And and that's okay because I after that, I was like, I still benefited from it, I still learned along the way. Um, so I think the biggest thing is just like knowing what it is you want to do, and then just unapologetically like driving forward. Um and another thing that I realized too is like you're in more control than you think. You really are more in control than you think. There definitely is circumstances that that play a hold and play a factor in people's lives, but you that can never be an excuse not to do anything. And I know it's it's hard for me. I I go back and forth on this a lot, right? Like it's like a lot of people say college is too expensive and it's hard to go to, which I do agree to a certain extent. And then I'm always like, well, like for me, I took out loans, right? I took out loans that I'm still paying off to go to school. Um, and I was able to do it, and I I did it on my own. And you you can there are ways to get where you're going, and unfortunately, for some people it is easier because of circumstance, but don't let that be an excuse to stop you from doing what it is you want to do or want to achieve.

Tom 19:38

Mm-hmm. So take self-accountability, right? Don't blame the small town, don't blame the people there for holding you back, don't blame anyone but yourself when it comes to taking control of your own destiny and and what you have to do and really look in the mirror and figure out what you need to do and and even if you're living in the worst circumstances, there's some level of control you have and self-accountability that you can you can exert on your situation and and change it, right? Especially getting into high high school years, right? Like, you know, as you're as you're getting towards 18, you have more and more control over what the future holds. Like as soon as you graduate high school, it seems like you know, it's not always financially easy, but you have a lot of options, basically. Or you can set yourself up to have a lot of options, you know? Yeah.

Blake 20:31

Do you can you say I think the b the best I read this quote online, and I think the perfect way to sum it that up is it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility. So it it's not your fault that you're in those circumstances and and it's it's frustrating, it can be frustrating and be harder, but at the end of the day, like it's still your life, and and you should still like take charge of it, even if that is the case. And that really spoke to me.

Tom 20:57

So like looking at your life, like obviously I've I've been your roommate for a while. Um another factor that I feel like probably played a big role in how you got out and like where you are today is um like video do you think video games played a big part as far as like it's funny, but like um obviously video games, I feel like there's some skills that that correlate to computer science and programming, um, at least habit structure for sure. You know what I'm saying? The habit of sitting at that desk and and kind of working at uh solving a problem until it gets figured out. But then also it's much more obvious today, but you go back 10, 15 years ago and most people in small towns are just in small towns and and they don't know that there's other options. I feel like you being such a video game nerd plugged you into the internet and like had you connecting with people all around the world and made it more obvious to you that that you there is a other like things to go do and and People to connect with and cultures and you know what I'm saying? Like I feel like the aspects of like how video games translate to computer science and then just how being plugged into the internet opens your eyes to other possibilities might have played into like a factor into your success, you know?

Blake 22:17

Yeah, no, that's so funny you bring that up. And it's especially true, I feel like because I was an only child, right? So I didn't have brothers or siblings to like play around with to like kill the time with. So it's definitely a lot of time spent playing video game. Um and I remember specifically I played this Dungeons and Dragons online, and it was a social like MMO game, and like that was like first exposure to like being a part of a group online, like virtually. Like I remember pretending like I was like a older than I was and like getting on the microphone and talking to them and stuff, and I really kind of like from a soft skills perspective, kind of like shaped my soft skills and getting that like kind of ready to be able to network and stuff that I when I like went into college that I leveraged. But then yeah, from uh like I remember playing a stupid amount of League of Legends, and it it's weird to say that that had like any impact on what today and like my my like goals and and where I am today, but like just that process of like playing and refining and like trying to improve there. Um, I think definitely kind of like if I do the same things like in any task, like programming tasks. I do the same things when it comes to you know work, right? Like I do it and then I try to improve, and that's exactly what it was like when I was going through League of Flaggins trying to climb up the ranked ladder, like that repetitive process, learning to love the repetitive process and the improvement process. I really attribute that to video games. Like I learned to love taking effort into refining it and seeing the output of that.

Tom 23:51

Yeah, man. That that's another point of like moving up in the rankings and stuff is very similar to like the grade system, you know. I'm saying in school and in college. It's it's very, you know, the difference between that B and the A is the difference between rank silver and rank gold. I mean, I remember how much you used to stress over these gold rankings, right, in League of Legends, you know, but it's it's very similar mindset that gets applied to school and and and how to get your degree, I feel like, you know.

Blake 24:20

Yeah, man. Yeah, a hundred percent. And also it's just like at the end of the day, even if you don't get where you want to be at, like you you still have improved yourself, right? Like even if it's in the video game, even if it's real life, um, even if you don't make it to the goal at the end of the season, you still have moved up or you have learned things, and it was all still a yeah, the journey was still worth it.

Tom 24:45

One like let's do one last video game question. Um I f I feel like it's important. I don't know. Uh like what what vi what video games do you think are a waste of time, or what types of video games, what what video games or types of video games do you think are like beneficial and potentially healthy? And and what maybe strategies do you use to manage because like obviously people can start spending 50 hours playing video games and it can ruin their life. What was your mindset towards like like do you play an hour a night, two hours a night? Like how do you structure your mind and how did you in college uh high school like think of like structure your behaviors so that video games were potentially helping you and not hurting you?

Blake 25:31

Yeah, that's great, and that's a fine line to find too, sometimes. Like it can be it's very easy to get sucked into that world, especially too, because the and the problematic part about video games is that you can get your dopamine firing, right? And that is made for us to like get that short-term reward system for doing a task, and we can trick your bodies with video games and doing that. It makes you feel productive, makes you feel like you're making progress, but in actuality, like it's not real-world progress either. So too much of it is definitely can be harmful. Um, and so really what I like to structure is I take a look at the video game and realize there's a lot of video games that have like the the carrot and the stick where you know you're working towards a goal, and it's like I realize like, oh, I'm not enjoying playing the video game. I'm enjoying working towards that goal and getting it, but I'm not actually enjoying the process, right? Like if you see video games that have like daily quests or weekly quests, right? Sometimes like you get so caught up on completing that that you're not actually enjoying the time that you're spending. So if I find that I'm ever getting that point, I know that it's time to find a different game. And that's what I liked about League of Legends was because I realized that I I wasn't really like, yeah, I was working towards the rank goal, but I enjoyed each game that I played versus like, man, I really gotta do this stupid side quest to complete this goal just because I want to complete this goal. So definitely doing it, like finding out like which games you actually enjoy doing, and then you know, setting aside the time at the end of the night for it, right? Like I like to have my teeth brushed, I like to have all my other stuff out of the way so I can sit down and like fully feel guilt-free about my session um to like really dive into it.

Tom 27:15

Okay. So don't let it take uh priority over real life responsibilities and don't don't just be a completionist for the sake of completing it. You gotta be really enjoying it. Yeah, because I I with Pokemon Go, I remember there was a certain point where I was just sending people gifts all day and like doing bullshit that I was just like, dude, I'm not even enjoying this game anymore. You know, it's just so far from what it was at one point. I mean, it's when the pandemic hit too, is when I was like, eh, you know, but I mean certain games get like that where yeah, the the the completion portion of it, it's just not fulfilling, and it feels like work, and when it feels like work, it's it's no longer a game, bro, you know?

Blake 27:59

Yeah, and no, totally, and that's like it's weird because like that works against our like biological evolutionary sense and like triggers that response, and it's so so wild. And that also like like when you're taking a look at dry fitness and uh when you're taking a look at implementing challenges or like daily or weekly quests like that, like it's gonna fire those same mechanisms. Luckily, there's like a tie-in to like the real world there that like you'll see some benefit of, but it's like just wild how that just operates on us at such a primitive level that we just are like we love that shit.

Tom 28:34

Yeah. It's crazy, dude. Yeah, man. The last thought about video games is is they get you in that flow state too. I think it's really important to be able to find the flow state. I've been thinking about that a lot, you know. And that's I think the best the benefit of video games is just getting you in that in that state of mind where you're comfortable doing something, you're passionate about it, you're not overthinking, you're just existing and feeling accomplished and moving forward in a goal or a task. You know, they're just so good at that, man. Um Okay, but is there anything else from then your childhood or growing up in this small town in the south and and that led to your next chapter in college that that we need to talk about? Uh as maybe as far as like at this point you didn't know you wanted to do programming right at all. So this is just I won at one point I remember you s you were talking about learning. Is it is it important to uh be curious and want to learn, or it seemed like you were just saying it's important to make if you want to get out, to make sure you go and get those grades. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't know, there's a there they they obviously benefit each other, but there's like an emphasis on like being very curious and wanting to learn to learn, but then there's also like it seemed like what you were saying is you also need to just go get the grades. Like you need to just go get if you go get it, you know, go get the A's, uh whatever I don't know, you know. I feel like there's a difference there.

Blake 29:58

I mean I think I think yeah, totally. And I think for long-term growth and success, it's definitely good to have curious mindset. But also I know in the beginning, like you're not always studying what it is you want to be studying, or you know, you're not learning about the subject that you really care about learning about. And sometimes you do just have to go get those grades. But the thing with that is even regardless of of like whether or not you're invested in it, you should you should be studying to learn the subject ver versus studying just to pass the test. Um like not like and that'll help you just in life in general, but also like you'll just get better grades right out of it once you understand. So that way when they reword the question from a test, right? It doesn't abuse you because you understand the subject matter instead of just like knowing the definition of this term, but knowing what that term is and how it fits in the bigger picture of the subject. And that's like really the mindset that kind of helped me get through college and in high school. And you know, I was taking a lot of college credits in high school, and I was able to complete my bachelor's in three years, and like that mindset was like how I studied for exams, and it was how I was able to knock things out, and I think it's a really big game changer that a lot of people don't really talk about.

Tom 31:14

Yeah, man, that's that's the next thing I wanted to talk about, which I I always find it crazy that you were able to just get in and out of JMU in three years. Um it took me five, right? And and part of the reason I wanted to do a deep dive like on your life is that I come from like the opposite, right? Like I I afforded the luxury to go and take five years and I didn't have to pay for college and and I'm very blessed, you know, to have that situation. But it's also just such a it's such a different accomplishment for you someone like you who had to go rush in, take out loans, do it as fast as possible, and you know, I don't know. So um yeah, let's talk more about the transition into college uh and and just kind of like you said, that whole mindset to get get in and out uh at that speed. So did you always want to go to JMU? Was that just kind of the goal? Was there other schools you considered?

Blake 32:11

Yeah, it's funny. I did I did JMU was the number one goal. Um I only applied to two schools, even though I did like have pretty good grades. I probably should have applied elsewhere. And that was mainly because I wanted at that point in my life, I was that set on being a high school band teacher. That's what I would love, that's what I wanted to do. JMU has a great music school, and that's why I wanted to go there, and that's why I went there initially.

Tom 32:32

Oh, crazy, man. Yeah, I you switched like early that freshman year to computer science, right? Like within a month or something, right?

Blake 32:41

So how'd you Yeah, so basically, um yeah, so basically I I went there early because I was in the marching band in my freshman year. Um so I went early to to JMU um to go through like their marching band camp. And like it was there when I was with a bunch of other majors of various, you know, um levels and years at JMU that I realized that it wasn't quite what I wanted to do for my professional career, that I would just wasn't like I would rather keep it my hobby, keep it the thing that I loved. That I wasn't as serious about it the degree that some of the people were. And if I were to be, it might ruin some of the allure that I that originally had on me. And like I just remember like thinking about it and like being like, okay, I I want to switch. I really enjoyed computers and video games growing up, so let me try out computer science. And I I remember calling my mom up and then talking to her about it. I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna switch to computer science, and I just remember her being like, Thank God. Because it's such a uh a lucrative like you know, figure to get into compared to like a high school band teacher. So she was very happy.

Tom 33:46

That's funny, dude. Yeah, I mean I forgot, I forgot that that wasn't your n your goal. Well, I guess you like you said, did you you change your mind before I even met you then, right? Or okay, that's why I don't remember this. Okay. Well, I feel like we did talk about your computer science journey through school a lot, uh, or or at least some in our in our first episode. So why why the sac why music, why the saxophone? Why do you why do you why do you like playing the music so much? Why did you see yourself as being a music teacher?

Blake 34:21

Yeah, I just uh I it was twofold, right? It's something about like music kind of taking me to like an ethereal place. Like I didn't think it really has powerful impact on on your emotions. And I remember just like listening, like putting on headphones late at night, like listening to the gorillas, and just like really being in tune with the music and really enjoying like the places that it could take you and almost like like transport you into a different different area. You just like it get to go to like an artist world for a second and just like experience it. And the second piece of it is I really love the performance aspect. Like I said, I was a performer, so I enjoyed being on stage and and and playing for people, um, alongside of music, kind of like a lot of other repetitive tasks, like you can see the effort being put in and and and getting turned into progress. Like you can see yourself getting better. And I really enjoyed that aspect of it. I really enjoyed like taking a song that you wanted to learn um and taking the sheet music and like trying repeatedly, also figuring out what pieces you needed to improve on. So just focusing on this small section of the song because this part's really hard, and and and really practicing it over and over and over again until you can like nail it. Just that whole everything about it like really spoke to me uh across the board on all three of those topics.

Tom 35:41

Hmm. Yeah, man. It um I'm about to do an episode soon about flow, actually, which is a part of our college experience, which was these like um poi is like, you know, these spinning balls on and on like strings you can do fire to, and then like the hula hoop stuff is very similar. And and I similar to music, I feel like I I loved learning new tricks. It was very, very hard. I would put in like five hours, learn a new trick, but then the best part was and I could put on some music and just flow, like and just um kind of like like turn off my brain a little bit and just kind of like dance almost, you know, and and whip out all my tricks to the music. I f I feel like obviously uh playing an instrument, like that was probably the closest I ever got to playing an instrument as far in and it's not even a musical instrument, but it was something that I did to music, right? I feel like something like the saxophone, you put in 10, 15 hours of of work to learn some new song or a new skill set, but then you can just pick it up and just start playing, and and not necessarily playing a song, but just flowing and like doing whatever you feel like with it, right? Is that kind of I mean because you did poi for a little bit too. Are those compare comparable things?

Blake 36:53

Totally, totally. And it's the same way with like uh same way with a lot of stuff too, like like skateboarding, practicing that one trick over and over again until you can just like bust it out as part of like your your routine or um dancing, right? Like dancers go through a lot of practice on an individual move, but when they do it, it's uh it's all about like once someone's practicing so much, they make it look effortless. And it's really wild that because to get to that point, it's so much the opposite of effortless that it's it's ironic, right? Because they've spent hours like refining that and getting it to the point where it seems from a bystander perspective that it's just so fluid and easy and natural when really it took them hours to get to that point.

Tom 37:37

Yeah, man. Yeah, but um playing a musical instrument seems like actually one of the most time-consuming hobbies like through college and and and high school and stuff. I mean, even more than sports, those kids practice so much, right? I mean I I never did it, but Yeah, yeah.

Blake 37:54

And especially I got the dotes of the marching band at JMU, and it was like another level too. Like they just like especially with that, because there's so many different aspects going on at one time to you, um, with like marching and like doing that correctly, but also playing the music correctly. So like there's just like a lot of physicality and a lot of memorization and areas to improve upon. So it's it's definitely a lot going on.

Tom 38:17

Does does music and playing music like have any overlap with computer science and technology as far as how your brain works and how you synthesize problems from a computer science perspective? They you know what they say that there is.

Blake 38:33

Every time I've I I've seen people you know talk about the correlation between those who like play musical instruments and being good programmers. Um yeah, I think so. I think it's just because uh like I said, like all those things where it's like you're doing like something repetitive or or you're analyzing what you've done or or your aptitude at something and trying to improve it, like that carries over directly, right? Like when you're you know trying to look at like what part of Islam that you need to improve and figuring out oh the error is here, right? Like almost like when you're trying to debug something, like when it comes to computer science, like it's the same kind of aspect where you just like try to figure out like what's going on and really just like deep dive into it. Um and I I I do think there's a high crossover.

Tom 39:24

Yeah, I mean, because um there's there's a couple music podcasts I listen to, and they're always breaking things down as like there's a special moment if you do something halfway through a song or two-thirds of the way through a song, and and you know, like two songs will mirror each other, or you know, two halves of an album. It's like it, you know, in music theory it seems like they deal a lot in fractions, you know, and like eighth notes, and I don't know, just the way they break it down, it seems like there's some similarities to programming as far as like um I don't know, like sometimes programmers will will like break things up into like thirds or halves, or you know, just like maybe maybe it's on the front end of programming too, the way you display things is is a lot of times I don't know. I just feel like they're both very fractional in in ways that might have overlaps, or at least I could see how I could see how you know your passion for music kind of turn into a passion for coding. I no no it's not direct, but I just see how I feel like the br the way the brain w thinks about those two are actually probably similar. I don't know. It's just intuition too. Yeah, totally.

Blake 40:30

Yeah, no, it's like the science behind music is is wild and and rooted in in sound science and and math. Like uh you're talking about like the notes breaking it up, like you know these n these types of notes can equal like the same amount, like the the fact that you have these things called bars, right, or you have like one one measure, which is four beats, and you can you can there's a so many different ways to do something inside of that four beats that it's just like mind-boggling. And it's kind of the same with programming, right? There's so many different ways that you can build an app, right, or a feature, um, and and just like figure out what you want, how you want to fill that space or how you want to implement that app or feature. It's kind of like a similar mindset.

Tom 41:17

And then too, it's like um, you know, is is your feature or app ever done? Is it ever finished? Is the song ever finished? Like eventually yes, but like there's always more you can add, or you can simplify it, or you know, I I don't know. It's it's very they're very open-ended tasks, I feel like, that they're not unlike the video games in the sports and stuff, like they're not like it's not very completionist, you know what I'm saying? It's very hard to complete a song or an app or a I don't know, you know? They're very just they I don't know, they can go on forever, you know.

Blake 41:58

Yeah, that's so true. That's also funny like about like when Life and Pablo was coming out and like it going to be like a living album, almost like it was gonna be an app that received like updates periodically, you know, because like it is totally the same way. Like when do you call something done? Like it's so hard in big US, and it's like really up to like I guess if it captures what you needed to be done, but like it can always be tweaked further and further and further.

Tom 42:23

Definitely, man. Okay, what about um I think we've talked about coding in college before? So like your let's talk about just like your experience at college, like how did your um and and like I guess the overarching theme here is like, you know, how did you become successful? So like what kind of habits did you start building in college? What kind of structures, what what did you what kind of things did you learn about being successful and and and what it takes to make it to the level you're at now during those college years?

Blake 42:56

Yeah, and I think I think some of the the best habits you can have is is organization. I remember um taking some whiteboard paint I bought from Lowe's and and painting it on our our Sun Chase apartment walls and using that as like I would like break down what I needed to do for the day there and and really getting it done. Um I think I think that's a huge part of it, and just trying to stay on top of things and organized. Like it's like the first battle, like just so you know what you need to do, and like which is completely separate from actually doing something well, but just like seeing what all you need to do is a great first step. It can really help you and like getting it together. And I think the second thing that I learned was being honest with myself about my learning habits. Like a lot of people love going to the library to study, but I that was never for me. I could never study in the library. I just needed it was too much stimulation, like from a noise and visuals perspective. I wasn't in control of that environment, and I realized that I study best when I am in controlled environment. So I I had never once studied in a library. I always did it in my my room where I could control the temperature, I could control the music, I could control, you know, so many different aspects of it. Um, which takes like and I like even if I wanted to go study in other places, just knowing and being honest with yourself. And maybe your opposite, maybe you know, you you can't study in your room because it's too much distractions, or you, you know, you you have your video games there and you just ignore the responsibility, but just like really being critical of yourself and understanding what your strengths are and playing into those.

Tom 44:36

What are your strengths?

Blake 44:41

Yeah, I think my my one of my biggest strengths is is like loving the repetitiveness of things and loving failure. I love trying something new and failing at it, trying that thing again and getting a little better at it, rent and repeat indefinitely. Um to a point where like I will switch hobbies once I feel like I I got a good grasp on something, just so I can get that feeling again of seeing myself improve. That's why like I've switched through so many different things and I I I go full force on it for um a little bit of time and and really get a certain level of skill in it and and and decent enough in it, and then I'm ready for the next thing. Um learning to love that process, I I think that is something that like makes me feel extra adaptable, like taking that stuff from from high school where I'm learning from all these different cultures and all these different people, and I can like thrive with anybody, combine that with the fact that I like learning new things and doing new things and and going and into uncharted territories, like so you know you could drop me anywhere and I'd I would figure it out.

Tom 45:50

Is is the fact that you are passionate about so many different hobbies, is that a bug or a feature? Because I thought you've expressed it before as you spread yourself too thin. So which one is it? Is it both or is it bad? That's a good question.

Blake 46:09

Um so there's a quote, right? That's like a jack of all trades and like a master of none. And what I didn't realize is there's actually more to that quote um and what that the second line is, but oftentimes better than a master of one. So for the longest time I thought that was my my weakness actually. Like I just never had like this one thing that I was really good at. And like I could have been like if I had spent all my time into one thing instead of switching context each time, like maybe I would be a master of that thing. But honestly, the adaptability that I gained from having a bunch of different skill sets and learning like the flow from poi and different flow sports and and and like the the maneuvers from that and learning like the logistics and uh um being able to break down problems with computer science, learning how to you know analyze what I was doing with legal elections and my reaction times and and and how to improve, like all those different things like I I can learn from and they're each in a unique way um and bring it all together to like benefit me. So I really think that like spreading yourself out can like provide a lot of benefit. And I think it's you know for me, what it's what works best.

Tom 47:24

Yeah, man, I feel like um spreading yourself out is the best thing for you, like in your personal development as a human and like your growth and and like you said, you know, being able to dive into different activities and stuff and have different hobbies and and and grow and find the intersection between hobbies. But I also feel like from society's perspective, uh we live in a society that really focuses on specialization and getting really good at one thing, and that we really highly, highly reward people for being really good at one thing, and that's it. And I feel like the best thing for your career, at least in your early 20s, is to have one thing that's you're really good at, and that's the best way to move forward. Because we are going to talk about career in a minute. So I don't know. I feel like there's definitely a dichotomy there, and there's definitely two different lenses to view that issue. And and as far as what society is looking for, it's definitely specialization, you know.

Blake 48:25

Well, yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that too, because there is like both sides of the the coin on that one. And and what I've seen too, like from a hiring perspective for engineers, the big thing now is what they want. They want till T-shaped skill set. And a T-shaped skill set means you have that kind of broad knowledge across the board on a bunch of different skills, but there's one in particular that you'd like really hone in on, and that's your bread and butter. But you still have the branches of the T that like, you know, you have exposure into this, X, Y, and Z, but your specialization is in Y. Right. So like having a little bit of both, uh, I'm saying become like kind of like the new wave and really what people were trying to focus then on.

Tom 49:08

Yeah, that's interesting. That reminds me a lot of like my my degree. Um I sat put a lot of focus on breath and depth, right? That top of the T is like your breath. And and I got a lot of experience with a lot of different science and technology, you know, courses, and then they forced me to kind of get depth on one of them, like my junior senior year. Um, but there was a big emphasis on breath and the wideness of of of how you can see the the intersection between biology and chemistry and physics, you know, and between programming and manufacturing and s you know, security and and all these different things, and what's what what kind of systems are are are they all involved in and how do they all, you know, like overlap and relate and intersect with each other. It's there's a lot of power in knowing all that, you know.

Blake 49:58

Yeah, and I think a big difference too is like sometimes you need someone to solve a certain problem, like from a a business standpoint, but sometimes you want somebody that can solve a bunch of problems that you don't know about that may not even exist yet, and you want someone that you feel like you can trust to handle any problem that comes their way. Um so so it all depends kind of what you're looking at. Because like sometimes you do need you have that specific need and you need someone who's an expert in some topic to to help you solve that issue. But in general, maybe you just want someone that you can, you know, for these more easily solved problems, just handle anything that comes their way.

Tom 50:45

Yeah, man. I'm trying to think of where I want to go next. There was there was something I wanted to talk about with with with college uh that I forgot about. Oh, I remember. Okay. Um yeah, let's uh let's touch on career in a moment because this this conversation's drifting that way. But uh I feel like there's one couple more things I wanted to say about college, which was um uh one thing that I thought that you were really good at is setting personal boundaries with people. It's something that I struggled with, I think, until the very end of college, like my my fifth year. Um but you seem I I feel like personally part of your success and part of the reason you got out of there so fast was you were able to have friends, but you were able to set boundaries, you know. You were able to like if if you wanted to play video games with me, I'd be down, but if I wanted to play video games with you, no. Not if it doesn't fit if I'm not done with my homework, then no. You know, if I'm not if I don't have the grade I want in this class, then no, you know. I feel like you were able to like just manage your social interactions in a way that that A, you were able to say no to people, but B people knew people knew not to even ask you uh if it wasn't you know the right time or whatever. Like you're you're you're not gonna do anything outside of your schedule. You're not gonna be pulled in in any direction because there's just so many people in college, so many ideas, so many hobbies, so many things that can pull you in a million directions that I don't know. I just felt like that was something that you were exceptionally good at for 19 years old or whatever the time was, you know.

Blake 52:24

Yeah, well th yeah, thanks. And I think part of that too was like once I realized uh you know earlier in life that I was gonna be unapologetically myself and realize like I'm you know I'm gonna work towards what I want to work towards, like understanding like you know some of those like what's what's the most important, it's like my goal and like where I want to go and figuring out how I can do that. But also part of it too is having good people around you to understand that, right? Like there are people who are not good for you in your life sometimes, and you gotta figure out who those people are and and really surround yourself with great people. Like if if someone is not willing to understand the reasoning behind that, right? Like it's empathetic, like right, like if someone is giving you, you know, shade because you're like, no, I gotta really study through this test, and and you're like, oh come on, man, please come on, let's play video games. I always play with you, like well, Eddie, like they're not beneficial to to like where you're wanting to go. And also they're just not empathetic towards like you as an individual and understanding like where you're coming from. So like I think a big of it, big part of it too is having awesome friends like you, like and and that understand each other at like uh like even in the moment, like things don't align, just understanding like it's what's best for that individual, and everybody just being you know happy working towards the future self.

Tom 53:45

Yeah, man, I learned about this rule recently. I've been meaning to make like a TikTok about it, but it's called the 51% rule, which is you should try to be at least 51% of every friendship or relationship that you have in life so that you're not just draining this other person. You know what I'm saying? If they get you a gift, they get them a gift, or if they, you know, um listen to your problems, listen to their problems, or whatever. And, you know, I I think from a karmic perspective, you know, it's good, it's you know, it's good to give more to this life. And I used to uh I used to also think that that I could build my app and give to the world in this different way, but I've started to realize too, it's like one-on-one interactions, like you know, you want to give to every single person, you know what I'm saying, that you interact with, and and and that's a better way to boost your karma than you know, building some cool app necessarily. If if if you're just a dick to everyone you meet, but you're building something cool over here, like it's not really you're not really gonna have the same positive karma that you think you're gonna have. But uh another rule, another thing that that that 51% rule made me think about is like if people are at like 20% with you or 10% or some people are five percent, if they're not doing any and I don't like necessarily expect people to do things for me, but if someone is not adding to your life at all or barely at all, and on the flip side you are constantly listening to their problems, doing things for them, buying them things, deal like whether it's emotional or just your time or whatever you're giving to them, if you're just always giving to them and they're never giving back and they're just draining you of as much as they can, like this is not a person that you want in your life, you know? So I don't know, is there any other is there anything else that you've realized as far as like how to how to figure out who is good in your life or who works or who doesn't or along that those lines of thinking?

Blake 55:35

Yeah, it's funny you said that because I I just I just thought of, you know, while you were saying that, like, yeah, and and people are getting like it's sometimes they get blurry, right? It's not as easy to see like empirical data on like who's bad for you or who's good or or how much effort each of you is putting in. Um and really I think it boils down like knowing the person at like a de at a deeper level, um, outside of individual events, like um, like figuring out, you know, really like I think like especially like you know, when we became roommates and we became deeper friends, like really looking like I know that you want the best from me. Like literally, like that is what your feeling is towards me. Like you you want the best from me, you want me to be happy, you want me to live my best life, and likewise, and and like finding people that are supportive of that and people that want the best for you, um, and and you know, are truly in your corner, um, I I think is the most important thing. So, like really understanding, you know, at the end of the day, is this person there for me? Is this person um supportive of me? Is this person gonna be there if things aren't easy, if things hit the fan, is it is he are he or she gonna be there and and and and figure it out with you? Um, I think that's kind of like the questions that I ask, right? Like in in the abstract away those individual instances too, because like people can also lie about it and seem like they're in your corner and stuff, but like really like trying to find the root root feelings and like are the you know are are they get are they truly giving into the relationship as much as you are? And that's based on on how they view you. Do you do they want the best for you or do they want what's best for them? And like it doesn't really matter what happens to you.

Tom 57:28

Yeah, man. I'm I'm reading this book on it on uh human uh what's it called? Fuck, I can't remember it. Uh well I actually want to look it up. Hold on. Man, I'm I'm du dutting out a couple times today. I don't know what's going on. I'm trying to pack for this trip.

Blake 57:48

No worries, dude. You got a lot going on. Yeah, I know, dude. You got a lot going on.

Tom 57:51

Yeah, I was late because of um like taking the car in to get clean, detailed and cleaned. The laws of human nature and like, you know, how how certain people will will not like you, and um and it it gave a bunch of tips on how to figure out if someone doesn't like you or not. I forget a lot of them, but one of them said, walk up to them like from a side angle. So, you know, they're facing forward, you walk up to their peripheral and say, hey, you know, or something, get their attention and they'll look at you. And people, if they know that you're coming, like if you're walking straight on to them, then they'll know you're coming, so they'll pretend, they'll smile and say hey, but but if they if they have to like react and look at you really quick, they'll sh they might show a sign of disgust, you know what I'm saying, before they put the fake one on, you know. And there was all these little tricks of like how to figure out like that sign of disgust, you know, because obviously people are gonna be like very nice in like a group setting, you know, to you, but then like one-on-one, they might say something a little mean to you, it's like, oh, this person doesn't really like me, you know, or or they might snap on you in a group setting or whatever. But the the one that stood out to me out of all those rules was like the the come at them, come at them kind of from I don't know how to set this situation up, but like come at them kind of like from a surprised angle, and and you might see a a s a quick like like flare of disgust on their face before they start faking that they like you and stuff. I don't know. Interesting. Interesting to think that there's people that just fucking hate you and you have to be on the lookout for them. But um another thing and you have to like sniff it out too, like yeah, man. And sometimes it has nothing to do with you, too, so it's it's hard. Sometimes it does. But uh that also like another bone I have though with people that sometimes want the best that actually do want the best for you, but can be problematic are like when people they you know they want the best for you, um, but then they're all of a sudden, like most of the time you guys think the same thing is the best thing that you should do, but then all of a sudden out of the blue, what they think is the best for you is not what you think is the best for you, and they try to manipulate you into like helping you in their eyes. Like, for instance, um, let's say you quit drinking and I want to go out, you know what I'm saying? And your goal is to not drink, and I'm like Blake has been in his room all week, like he needs to go out, and I start like manipulating you, be like, dude, come on, man, like you should go out with me. Like, but I truly believe that the best thing for you is to go out because of whatever, you know, you've you know you haven't been out of your room in a week and you haven't met anyone new, and maybe you're upset about something, and I'm just like he needs to go out. Like, it's still a problem when someone doesn't respect what you think is the best thing. They want the best thing for you, but they they they think they know better than what you know. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. There's there's still a problem there, I feel like, sometimes when people don't respect you what your goals are for yourself and and they think that they can tell you essentially what what you should be doing in life. I don't know, they're always pissing me off.

Blake 1:00:57

Yeah, dude. And it's like even even if even if you still are sticking to your guns about like you like you think this is what's best for them. Like there's just so many different ways to go about it than like like the pressuring or the manipulation aspect of it. Like, if you think that's the best, then like set up opportunities for them to take the punch, like, hey man, I'm going out. You want to come? I think we'd be I think we'd have a great time together. Like way different than being like like trying to pressure you into it, right? Things like that, like where it's like, you know, at the end of the day, they they probably know what's best or they're dealing with it in the best way that they can. And like just showing you're there through through support or those opportunities, but not ever forcing them or or you know, trying to get them to act out of their own accord and more aligned with what you think is right. Like that's just like not a you know, that that just kind of paints the picture that like, you know, they're truly not in your corner, even though they think they are, because they think that they they know more than you do about yourself, which I mean, like obviously from a secondary perspective, it can be easy to be like, oh, this is obvious that they need XYZ. But like really they're not empathizing with you or seeing it from your perspective at all, and they're forcing their own, you know, their own feelings about the situation onto you, which is just not empathetic or what a good person or someone in your corner does, even like in that moment. It doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad person or they're not for you, but just in that moment, they're acting out of their own accord and not empathizing with you as a human being and as a friend.

Tom 1:02:34

Yeah, man. That's not cool. I don't, I don't, I that's a pet peeve of mine, but but yeah, man, uh I don't know. What um I feel I feel like another I'm gonna change the sop topic a little bit. Another reason that you were successful getting through college was because of the jobs you picked, right? You were a TA and you were uh RA, right? And I always people will like I was waiting tables. I always turn around and tell people don't wait tables, don't go work a real job in the real world in college. Go find one of these jobs like my friend Blake found. Go be an RA, go be a TA, go maybe even work on campus, like in D Hall, because those jobs understand you're a student, you know? If you're a waitress, if you're a bartender, like I worked at Jimmy Johns for a while, like there is zero understanding about your school life, and it's just it, I think it set me back, uh, at least a semester, you know, because of waiting tables. Um, it just became the top priority, even though it shouldn't have been. It just, you know, you're there, it you know, they take your attention away. And um, yeah, so why why did you choose those two type of jobs? What was the experience like? And and am I right to say that they they did help you get in and out quicker?

Blake 1:03:56

Yeah, that's a great question. I think, yeah, I think I chose those jobs because they yeah, their their priorities kind of align with mine, right? Like I could have gotten a job elsewhere. I did the waiting thing in high school, I could have done the waiting thing um in college as well. But just like having a place that prioritizes education there and it's more understanding is super important because uh it's kind of twofold. And it also looks really great on a resume, too, right? Like it stands out as like you getting involved and stepping up a little more at a place of higher education versus you know taking on a you know a kind of more of a standard workforce job. Um and like the thing about the other outside jobs like that is like they're all like business is brutal, right, for for anybody. And and those places are prioritizing um like staying afloat, making money, like making sure their business is doing well over you as an individual. And maybe like you bring things up to like the the shift manager, whoever's making the schedule, they can have a little more understanding. But at the end of the day, like your priorities are at odds with theirs. Um and they're just a little less understanding of it. So like getting involved there, not only is like really great just because like I could do schoolwork and still accomplish it, but also like what I learned from doing those jobs, it's almost like an internship. It gives you great like real-world experience. You know, being a being a um uh a teacher's assistant for a computer science class, you know, I debug other people's code all the time, right? And like help people understand the problem and like all those aspects really transfer it over well. Being an RA, I still during training there, they said um you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And like I still remember that quote and I still stand by that quote now. I still use it every day because it really is true. You got to get comfortable with uncomfortable situations and just learn to deal with it. And that's how you grow. Um, so I think from like just like so many different levels, it's like a it's a good move to do.

Tom 1:06:00

Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, since I've been talking to about people about like self-improvement and and motivation and stuff, uh, the a a big thing that has come up is is uncomfortability and seeking out uncomfortability and pushing yourself through that. I think that's what Charlie said. If he could give his his his past self one advice, um, it would be to seek out uncomfortable situations to grow from. Yeah, I mean, that's that's interesting that that came. What what about the RA position was so uncomfortable?

Blake 1:06:32

Um yeah, uh having a hard conversation, uh trying to solve roommate disputes, um, you know, people talking about wanting changes or switches because of maybe like personal issues that they're having, like in general, just like caring about the well-being and understanding. And then like there are a lot of things going on in their lives and and like learning and having those conversations. Like, like instead of avoiding it, which you get on the rug, like just addressing it and and being up front and like confronting it head on, like you gotta get comfortable with some of those harder conversations like like K and B to have.

Tom 1:07:08

Yeah, ma'am, because you are actually very young, RA. So these kids are basically like your own age, and those conversations are like if the kids are partying too hard, it's like, hey, um, if you don't have a hard conversation with them right now, they're gonna get arrested next weekend, you know, and you're gonna be the one that has to like to stand there and and have that arrest happen, you know? So it's like like the stakes are high as far as these freshman dorms because um people get in real trouble. People get in real trouble and then drop out if things go wrong. And with the right RA, the right warning, the right care to to to tell them to push them in the right direction before they get in huge trouble, it can go so far, probably, you know.

Blake 1:07:54

Yeah, a hundred percent. And then even just like I had one where it was like a roommate dispute, they were having issues, they couldn't agree upon anything, and just like hearing both sides, like mediating like a very volatile situation. Um, and like from a third-party perspective, right? Like, I'm like, oh, this sounds kind of silly. You guys are arguing about keeping the windows open or not, and like just like some random thing like that, but realizing and empathizing with the individuals there and like what they're feeling and why it feels so stressful for them when it's like a place that they're staying and a place that they're calling home right now, and like being able to understand that and digest that with two people that are at each other's throats and like turning that into like a mediation situation. Yeah, I think of the great skill set, especially like moving into management now, like having having that background is is definitely like something something good to have.

Tom 1:08:44

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm trying to think as to which one of these positions would be more valuable. I'm about to ask you if you could only pick one. Um, but I'm thinking about it and like the TA position is definitely better for the first part of your career, but at this point that RA position might translate better into the the manager um stuff that you have to deal with, you know? Which one would you pick?

Blake 1:09:06

Yeah, and well, you know what's interesting? I d I think I would pick the RA position. Um because when I look back at the TA position, I think they did a pretty pretty decent job. I like spent a lot of effort helping helping students and helping them understand their problems, without trying to like just give them the answers and helping them come to conclusions and really, you know, I I cared about like their projects and and their problems and helping them out. But and I did too as an RA, but now looking back at it, I realized different ways that I could have been better for people, or I could have showed up more as as like a leader. And like it's like I was like you said, I was kind of their age, I was as a younger point in life, like RAs had don't have all their stuff figured out, and now I'm looking back at like multiple years of experience. But like I realize now like the different ways that like I think that a true leader would operate, or the different scenarios where I could have showed up a little more or been a voice for the voiceless a little more, and I think that just has like I find myself thinking about that position way more than I do the TA position. Um just because of like the different scenarios and and how how much more people focused that position was.

Tom 1:10:22

Yeah, it's like I feel like the TA position was good for one year, but if you were to do that for like three years, it would be the really repetitive and boring and and annoying. But the RA position for three years would you know, like you said, you would grow, you would become a letter better leader every time. Like uh I'm actually gonna interview Brian, Jacob's R RA at some point. I've been talking to him, but he was a senior and he was so good at his job by the time, you know, it probably was his second or third time being an RA. You know, he really probably grew every year he signed up for that job again and dealt with complete like the TA job, you're gonna deal with the same coding problems probably every year, but that RA job, like you said, these interpersonal people problems, they're gonna be completely different every single day of that job. And it's you know, it's gonna be something that you could really build on uh from year to year, I feel like, you know, if you were to stick with it.

Blake 1:11:19

Yeah, 100%. And also, like, yeah, people probably look back at like the classes and maybe like when I help them and been like, oh yeah, Blake was a cool TA, but like being an RA, you're intertwined with such an important and different and separated part of their life that they'll always remember that it's like really cool from that aspect. Like like like we still remember RA. I'm still in touch with a lot of my students, like just having the ability to be a part of that moment in their life, which is super like you know, you're always gonna remember your freshman year at a college, moving through dorm. Like it's so cool to be a part of their story and seeing like where they're at now. It's like really fulfilling in that regard.

Tom 1:11:58

Yeah, man. I I see everything through my podcaster lens now, but I I get the similar feeling from from doing this podcast. Like I have talked to so many people throughout my life, I'd have had so many conversations. I've you know, there's a point in my life where I feel like my my network was like 200 people, you know, uh at the right times, like in in early college era, you know, time frames. But then life moves on, and like other, you know, when I was working at MicroShatgy, my network was like 20 people, you know. And you have doubts about like, are do these people still care about me? Is there still something there or whatever? And like ever since I started doing the podcasts, like A, I get to reconnect with people, it's powerful, but then this very special, it's very like um most almost everyone who's been on my podcast has never done one before. So it's memorable, it's special, you can both reflect on the memory, it's online, other people have heard about it and mentioned it, and I just feel like such a strong connection with everyone who I've interviewed now where I can hit them up. It's like a uh I don't know a community because I don't know if they're tight with each other always sometimes, but like as far as like my connection with that person, there's no one who's been on my guest now that I don't feel like I could reach out to again, right? Um it's just certain and but I've spent there's roommates that I feel like I've had that I can't reach out to anymore, you know? It just does something different, it's just something special. And I feel like like you're saying, that RA position, like you could reach out to those kids, those kids all think highly of you, and and it's just sp it's just so special that it's you you could probably reach out to them ten years from now, kind of thing, you know.

Blake 1:13:38

Yeah, exactly, man. It's a and that's something that's like really fulfilling just in general, like being able to have that I don't know, it it's just a different feeling than anything else, like feeling that that closeness of relationship that's like another biological evolutionary trait that we have, like feeling that feeling like we're in a tribe and that we belong somewhere and just having you know, feeling protected or or having those connections like that is something that's really important to overall happiness in my mind.

Tom 1:14:05

Mm-hmm. Yo, uh you mentioned leadership. I want to talk about that, but as we move towards like your career, I forgot to ask, okay, if you could give your high school self one piece of advice, what would it be? And then the college version of yourself, what would it be?

Blake 1:14:22

If I can give my high school self advice, um I would just give my my I I would tell myself that I need to like grow into my own person a little sooner, like take char like break free from the constraints a a little sooner. And like I like I would give the same realizations that I had like more going into my senior year, I wish I could give myself a little earlier just to see like really whether I could fully grow into. Um so I would just say like you know, stop caring what people think, you know, do what makes you happy, all those kind of things, like just to really grow into my person, which is hard to do when you're growing up in high school, right? Like you feel like you want to belong at FedEad, you do some wild stuff to feel like fed in with your friend groups. So just like giving myself that input for my older self and being like, listen, just you know, do what you want to do, forget what anybody else is doing. Like you can carve your own lane. If it makes you happy, great. If it doesn't make you happy, drop it.

Tom 1:15:28

Nice and in college, what was your college advice?

Blake 1:15:32

College college advice would probably be to be more honest with yourself and your your feelings um a little more. I feel like in college that I was kind of like riding out these three years, I was like working on that goal, you know, I was trying to like maximize college experience in multiple ways, right? Like from the social aspect to also the um like the professional and and collegiate aspect. But like I never really took time to think about my feelings and my thought processes. Um, my mom was going through a divorce with my stepdad at the time. There's a lot of things going on there. Um, like I didn't really feel like I took the time to take care of my own mental health and my own self. Um, and really I would just encourage myself to like take that time to really dive into it, to really understand my feelings. Maybe even go get like talk to a counselor or something. Like, really, like I didn't put a bit as big emphasis on self-care and what it means to be like mentally and like spiritually happy in that regard, like in a in a kind of a broader sense. Like just just you know, try to get all parts of your mind. I was like getting my mind right, like from a study perspective. I was getting my body right from like working out perspective, but I don't know if I put enough emphasis on like on like my internal soul, if you will, as a way to word it.

Tom 1:16:59

But do you attribute this to just like you being in survival mode at this point in time? Like, do you have the grace to give like look back and be like, I had to ignore it? Do you think you had to basically ignore all these emotional issues until you got to a place in your career that you were comfortable in? Or or do you think that you could have I don't know, processed processed it more, or was this all just the situation?

Blake 1:17:27

Yeah, no, I definitely think that I could have processed it more. I like at the time, if you would have asked me, and even up till a couple years ago, if you would have asked me, I would have said, you know what, like it's a part of the grind to get here where I'm at. But you know, at a certain point you realize like the journey is just in part as important as the destination. So, you know, and and to again taking accountability for your situation and your circumstance, I could have taken the time out, and I think that it it it was important too. There's a lot of factors going on there that was outside of my control, but you know what, I didn't have to kind of like have those self-destructive tendencies if I wouldn't have taken the time out and really thought about it and digested those feelings. And like hindsight is 2020, right? So it's like easy for me to say that now. And like I I don't know if there'd be if I would even listen to that advice if I was there. Probably I was so like angsty, I would probably be like, shut up, future play if you don't know what you're talking about, like and just think blow them off because I was like so full of myself too at the same time because things were going so well. Like, uh but like now looking back on it, yeah, I think that was also just part of like the the coping mechanism from like the internal perspective. Like, I I definitely if I was being honest with myself, I could have taken the time out, I definitely could have done a little more on that that front.

Tom 1:18:46

Do you wish you took four years? Because from my perspective, I wish that you had four years, you know what I'm saying? Um I obviously can't be like, yo, take out another whole year of debt to take your time and enjoy this experience, you know. But um do you do you just wish you had the financial ability to do four years, or do you wish, or do you ever do you even regret not taking out a loan and and doing a four fourth year, or do you think you made the right decision, or what?

Blake 1:19:20

Dave, that is a great question. Um and I think the answer to that is from a financial perspective, it's really cool that I did three years from a looking back like resume, looking back, bragging, like whatever you want to call it perspective. It's really cool that I did three years, um, and like where to line me in my career. But the the one thing that I will say is A, it was hard like leaving everybody and seeing all my friends still, you know, enjoying that year, even though we did sync up later in life. Um B, like the big thing about when you're starting your career post-grad is like it it hits like a truck. Going in that 40 hours work week corporate life hits hard. Like from a um like a depressing, like you're now in the corporate America rat race perspective. And like I was kind of like doing it on my own then because like I wasn't tight with the the age group that I graduated with because you guys were there. Um and so it was like a really kind of like dark year for me, especially coupled with that with like an ending of a relationship and things like that. Like it was it was a hard year. I I remember being so excited when um you went stayed with me a summer um because it was like I don't know, it's just like a it was a rough time. It's a rough time. So I definitely like from that regard wish that I had four years. Now, with a little bit of time at that has passed now, like I'm still glad that I did it. And I don't think I would change it, but I I definitely know that that was a tough year for me, like learning to get the swing of things and like the real world and kind of just being thrust on my own. Because I also just moved to Nova, right? It was the first time I was living on my own in Nova, which in and of itself is a big change. Coupled that with the post-grad life and and starting a new job at Accenture, like it was just a big hard pill to swallow.

Tom 1:21:16

Yeah, I feel like um we were talking about getting out of your hometown and success and stuff like that. And I feel like today you've like just arrived at like where you've been wanting to be. But I feel like we thought back then that was success for you. You know what I'm saying? Like you were like, yay, I've made it, I got out of my hometown, I graduated from college, and like nothing about that year felt like success. And for most people, I don't think their first year out of college feels like success at all. You know what I'm saying? I think that there's a lot of empty promises in uh in the corporate world and and everyone wants their kid to make it there, and it doesn't feel like the end of the road. If I mean it really is just the beginning of the next road, but like in a very abrupt, aggressive, time-consuming, like traffic sitting, like draining kind of way, but yeah, man, I feel like you I feel like you were like, I made it, and then you didn't make it you hadn't made it yet. You know what I'm saying? I don't know.

Blake 1:22:20

Exactly, yeah. Like it's easy to say, like, get those feelings when you're like a senior in college and you also have a job offer that he accepted, like life is good, right? Like you're the you know, right? You're a senior, so you kind of feel like you got the hang of JMU, that's kind of like your your city, and then you also have a job offer, so you feel like you know your years of college was worthwhile and turned into you know, this is the end result of going to college, right? So like I felt like awesome about it. And then, like you said, once you like have to walk to that metro, right? The metro transition at a metro center to get up to DC to go into the corporate job for eight hours and then come back, and then sometimes even more. Um it does like you're like, okay, well, I still got a long way to go. And like it felt like a long journey to get to this point, but really the journey starts now.

Tom 1:23:13

So what kind of um so you started at Accenture, you were just like a software developer, right? And then eventually, over the course of like three or four years, right, moved your way into managing a project there. So how did like can you talk about uh maybe just an overview, your your steps through that company and and what what do you think led to your we we said we weren't gonna talk technical, but like outside of your knowledge of of computer science, what led to your success and what habits and and things do you attribute towards your success at Accenture?

Blake 1:23:47

Yeah, so to begin with, I was um it was kind of interesting, actually. I feel like I had a slow start. Like I said, it was a hard deal to swallow um going out into like post-grad life. So I feel like that same energy and motivation that I had that got me to the end of college, I kind of was almost burned out already from like working hard, cramming those classes into those three years, like getting to where I was. I already had I felt a little bit burned out. So like when I started, I just wasn't really in the right headspace from both like a burnout perspective, but also like I said, it was like coming like from an unhappiness perspective, realizing that this is my life now. So I you know, I started out doing web development on a couple of different teams that I had transition over the years, and I remember it specifically like I felt like I lost my magic, like that same energy, that same like overachieving, I'm different, I'm gonna set out to do great things. I felt like I lost my like mojo when I started, and that was a really tough year and a half. Um, and I didn't feel like that. I got it back until I was asked to move to a different team. Like I was I still had the social skills, but I was just like wasn't putting in the effort and I didn't have the same passion behind it that I normally do. Um, but I was asked to move in as kind of like a lead for this the smaller web team um to replace the guy leaving. And like that was the moment where it kind of like I felt like okay, I'm getting some more responsibility now. I feel like maybe I did, you know, I do stand out a little bit, and I kind of felt like I I got my confidence back, my motivation back. And also a big thing to that too was I had a scrum master on that team, and she would just call me out when I was doing things wrong. And that was like a really big help, right? Like whether or not, like if it's like, you know, I was oversleeping a lot, I was like trying to figure things out, right? My sleeping schedule was awful, and she would just be like, yo, you know, if you're trying to climb out of your career, why are you why are you sleeping? Yeah, you gotta wake up early. Come on, like why are you why are you so oversleeping? I'm like that kind of realism just like helped check myself and like really kind of like start growing. And like the big thing, I guess, what I'm getting at here is like recognizing where you can improve at. Like she wasn't saying that to be mean, right? Taking all that as constructive criticism and improving yourself. And if you can learn to do that, then I think you can be successful. And that's kind of what helped me because I just kept improving and iterating from there. Once I felt like I I found my footing from a personal confidence standpoint.

Tom 1:26:21

So having someone finding someone in your career who's willing to, first of all, tell you how to make improvements and stuff like that, because I still probably don't have anyone like that. I mean, different with remote too, but uh I don't have many people in my career who are gonna call me out, you know. So I don't know how you find that, but that seems like a big thing, and then being willing to make the adjustments and improvements when they're realized and recognized and and things like that. But then how about just getting excited for it? Because it seems like, you know, on your steps to success, these are the worst, just like 22, 23, 25, even sometimes just suck so much. I guess you were a little bit younger, but those first two, three years, um they're just not excited. You're never um you're very rarely doing what you want to be doing in life at that stage, and you have to take those steps to get to any next level in your career. So how do you stay excited about life? Or do you? I don't know.

Blake 1:27:24

Yeah, that's tough. And and for me, it was just like like once I like I I felt good about like wanting like and and had the energy to like put in more effort, I realized like just like alright, well, if I'm gonna do this, let me just go for like hard back into it. Like I was doing when I, you know, I was in college or even in high school, right? When I was like coming in with that I want to take it to the next level mindset. And so it's like, you know, trying to like take those things, finding things to be proud of. Because I think one of the things that helped me get that energy back was realizing after wasting. A year and a half, kind of like being burned out and like not really doing much. I'm like, this is what I do for 40 plus hours a week. Like, I want that to mean something. I want to be proud of the work that I do. I want to look back and say, I gave it my all or I did my best, or like, you know. Also, this work is representative of me in a way. And like taking taking pride and ownership in that, that was the mindset change that allowed me to get excited in those early days. Like, all right, well, if this is what I'm doing for 40 hours a week, this is my legacy. So I'm gonna make sure that it's the best of my ability. I'm gonna give it my all. And that's kind of like what started me down that like, okay, I'm energetic, I'm ready to start taking tackling more and more and more.

Tom 1:28:44

And that goes back to that identity thing we were talking about, right? Like um, attaching the work you're doing to your identity is a way to really make sure that you take it seriously and really adjust yourself like internally to be the best prepared for that, you know? Because a lot of times I just feel like my work is what pays the bills, and I just show up and I'm not like I identify with anything but being a technical support engineer sometimes. You know what I'm saying? Even though that's what I do for 40 hours a week, it's like sometimes I push back on making that my identity. And I don't think it's I mean, obviously switch careers if you need to switch careers, but like if this is what you're doing, like you need to take some sort of pride in it, get excited about it. You know, like I can get excited about the money, but you know, recently like a mindset would be like, wow, man, this this software I'm working on is really cool. Like the the thing I work on, I'm like, wow, man, it probably took hundreds of people to make this over 20 years or whatever, whatever systems that I'm because I work for Oracle, it's it's a kind of an older company, so some of their systems are old, and I'm like, man, imagine how many people, how many generations have been using, you know, have been building upon this, because you know, things like that, things like that just adjust my mindset to be like, wow, I'm not just grateful for the money, but I'm grateful for to be part of something so much bigger than myself. You know, whether it's the company or the product or the team that you're on, you know, there's other hacks I feel like to adjusting your brain in a way that is grateful for the experience, even if it sucks ass, you know? Because you have you just have to, you have you have to find hacks sometimes to get there, you know, or else you're gonna be miserable.

Blake 1:30:27

Uh dude, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. You're not gonna love every single thing you do, but and this is it's it's funny that I mentioned this too, because like part of this like um learning about myself and my identity is like learning about reframing things, and that's a powerful tool. Like if you can reframe I hate my job, I hate what I do, and reframe it as something positive, like wow, yeah, like you were saying, this technology is like really old. It must have been, you know, look at how much effort's been putting into it. Like, if you you you start doing that, like though you you can become in control of so much of any situation that comes your way, like from uh from how you react to it, how you feel about it.

Tom 1:31:08

Yeah, man, my my new hack is reframing things into great uh gratitude, you know what I'm saying? That's a pretty that's a pretty obvious one, I feel like, if you're if you're paying attention to like self-improvement or whatever, but anytime I'm complaining about a situation or or feeling frustrated, like I channel that into gratitude, and it has just absolutely changed my life in so many so in every corner of of everything, you know, to to be grateful and to you know, and when I'm not, and I don't I don't always do it, but when I'm not, those are the the hardest days, you know what I'm saying? When I'm when I'm lacking gratitude. I don't know. I mean obviously everyone's life is hard too. It's you know, I might have an easier life that's easy to be grateful for, but what other reframing hacks do you have for rough time periods like these?

Blake 1:31:57

Yeah, well for me, uh I I reframe it and I reframe it and like how does this how is what I'm doing help me achieve my goals? And then I realize that that changes my mindset about it, right? Like one of the biggest problems for me is like if I feel like it's a a waste of time or I feel like it it's not benefiting me, I get really irritated in the fact that I'm doing it. Like I used to hate like going to the grocery store um after work just because I felt like such a waste of time and like everything becomes so excruciating, like waiting in line, trying to navigate people, parking. But then like if I take that and I reframe it and I'm like, you know, I'm I'm coming in here to buy healthy food, and with this healthy food, you know, instead of like if I have this at home, I'm not gonna be eating out, I'm not gonna be saving money, I'm gonna be, you know, eating healthier and be helping me achieve my fitness goals and my physique goals, and like reframing it in a way like, oh, I'm doing this to benefit myself makes me like, oh, okay, this is cool that I'm doing this then, because it's like how you know that it kind of works with like how I think things and how I process things. So like finding whatever it is that that makes you like something and enjoy something and reframing it kind of in that light has helped me so much.

Tom 1:33:14

Yeah, man. Yeah, if you can figure out like what you benefit from any time or money putting into something, it really helps charge that too. Like, you know, like you said, at the grocery store, I'm putting money into like my body that I love. It's healthy, you know what I'm saying? Or I'm spending time cooking is was a hard one for me, you know. So, oh, I'm spending time preparing this for my body. Like, I'm I'm excited about where this I used to be like, man, I'm just wasting time, but it's like, dude, you're building a healthy, happy body that can sustain years and years of whatever you want to do. Like, this is not a waste of time. This is this is a maybe a sacrifice of time, but for the well-being, you know, you gotta connect those dots for yourself, like the well-being of of your health and and things to to really really get it. I feel like I feel like you're just full of uh of what of life hacks. I feel like you know a lot more life hacks. So like what other hacks maybe we can talk about this time frame, but like um even shit like making your bed, high- I know you're big into hygiene, you know, like uh you're gonna have a much better outlook on the world if you brush your teeth and floss and wear clean clothes, you know. Like, that's kind of stupid. It's pretty simple, but I feel like that is one of your hacks, and and I feel like you have other things like that that kind of keep you propelled in the direction you want to to go in, you know? Like people swear by cold showers. People just absolutely crazy about cold showers on the internet right now. You know, I I feel like you have things like that too, that are not just in the ideal realm, but actual things that you do that keep your life moving in the direction you want it to, you know.

Blake 1:34:50

Yeah, totally. And I think um so like the the making the bed aspect is what I always see on the internet is like, you know, start your morning off by making your bed, which which I have been doing for a while now, and I I really enjoy it. Just because like not so much that like you know, people frame it on the internet because like you know, you can accomplish something that day, but for me, like it just you know, a a clear bedroom is kind of like helps me clear my mind. I can't really focus and things are a little cluttered like that. So that definitely helps. But I think the other thing that I've been doing a lot as my life hack for especially tasks that I don't want to do, is I treat it like I'm I'm making like a YouTube tutorial on it. Like I'm giving like a talk through as I'm doing the task, like even if it's just like cleaning the floor, right? Like cleaning my bathroom, like okay, next up we're gonna take the Lysol wipe and we're gonna like scrub around the faucet. Like, just like it's so stupid. And there's like really, I don't know why I do it, but something about it just makes it like more engaging for me mentally, and I'm I just enjoy the process a little more. So like that's how I've been keeping myself doing all the the boring stuff that it takes a little bit more effort to get myself to do.

Tom 1:35:54

It's so weird how that mindset switches, man, because it's the same thing with um podcasting and shit. Like, you know, just the fact that I'm recording this conversation makes me like sharper and ready and having better and high quality conversations. Uh and if I do that, like I pretend like sometimes I'm live streaming like a workout or something like that. And I f honestly feel like if I were to live stream everything, then my life would be better. Because I even if no one watched, I'd be like, oh, someone could be watching, and then I'd work like if I were to just specifically with my workouts, live stream every workout to like Twitch, I just think I would have way better workouts. I don't and it it's sad that I need that there, but like I think it would freaking work for me. I don't know. I I'm once I have a good in-home gym, I might be doing stuff like that. Just I don't know. I just think it would just be better that way. I don't know. 100%, dude.

Blake 1:36:42

I feel that way even naturally, like like you you go to the gym with people versus like you're working out on your own. Like just naturally being around other people, like has that sense of competitiveness, but also like you guys are all like there doing your fitness goals and and working out, like all of that like just makes for a better performance out of you. So like I I totally can see that.

Tom 1:37:01

Definitely. Yeah, I mean, and then that's the the problem or one of the problems, one of the struggles I would say with working from home is that no one's watching. So uh, and similar to what you said too, sometimes I pretend like I'm an NPC player, right? Uh it's like another like we're all in the simulation, right? I'm just like uh an NPC and I gotta cook dinner, and like like I'm actually the guy at the computer who's like cook dinner, and like then I just have to do it because I I'm not even in control. Like there's like my higher self, and then there's like my lower frequency self, and like uh my if my higher self decides it's time to make a salad, like I'm just I'm just uh performing that action and I can't really question it or complain about it, and like I take on that mindset sometimes too. I don't know.

Blake 1:37:48

Yeah, no, that's a good way to do it, dude.

Tom 1:37:49

You know, we kind of like go on an autopilot. Yeah, man, that's uh maybe you can speak to this too with like some longer term goals, but that's kind of like why I picked the fitness app and things is like I just pick longer like goals that I knew that would funnel down into the day-to-day in a way that would force me to like just I I I I don't really have a an option. I have to be in I have a fitness app. I have to be in shape. I have to. There's no questi there's no um there's no like complaint or like like pushback on like, well, should I be working out today? It's like nah, it's you know, from from the highest goal down to like what I do on a day-to-day, it's it's it's set me up in a way that you know it it's that higher self just forcing me without question to do the things that would make my life better, you know? In different ways. Totally. You know? 100%.

Blake 1:38:39

That's how I feel, like kind of like switching to and like the man material role, like filling out you know, shit. Oh man, do I really want to wake up? I really want to snooze that, but like realizing like, you know what, that's not where I am in my career anymore. Like, this is like no question, I gotta show up for these people. You know, it's not just me anymore that it this affects like there's just like a lot of different things like to kind of help you like eliminate the possibility of even like entertaining some of the like procrastination or pushback, like you're saying, by like framing it that way.

Tom 1:39:12

Yeah, I keep coming back to identity. I don't know why. I wasn't even planning on talk talking about that today, but I feel like when I was talking about identity too, I was saying like band kid, emo kid, podcaster, like entrepreneur, but like I've really tried to entangle the small things into my identity too. Like I've quit sodas recently or I'll quit sodas on the I'll drink sodas on Fridays and Saturdays. But if it's a Tuesday and I see a soda machine, I'm like, I don't drink soda. That is and I think maybe this happened when I stopped drinking. It's like that became my identity for the year I quit drinking. So when someone asks me, it's like I don't drink, and they just leave me alone, you know? But even internally, when it comes to like a soda, I'm like, I don't drink soda. That's not my I don't do that. And I just decided one day and I got that ingrained, and like, you know, when I was a soda drinker, every time I saw a soda like vending machine, I would be like, oh, I should get one, because I am I'm a soda drinker, you know what I'm saying? Like it just registers like that. I think waking up early is another thing too. You're just like, I don't sleep in. I just don't. Like, that's not my identity is the early guy, and I decided it, and now that is it. I don't get to sleep in. That's not who I am, you know?

Blake 1:40:21

Yeah, exactly. Especially, dude, like with those things that you're trying to get rid of in this habit, you're trying to build like this is not helping you in like your goal and who you want to be. Like, do you want to be that soda guy? You obviously don't want to be that soda guy. Do you want to be the guy that has trouble waking up and sleeps there and then is the one that's late to to work? No, you don't want to be that guy. Like, you like just like thinking about it like that and and just really brandishing it as, like you said, your identity and also like as a way, like, is this helping you on the person on the journey to be the person that you won't want to be? You know, like uh you don't want to be that guy. Don't want to be that guy.

Tom 1:40:58

No, sir. Um, okay, what about let's talk about leadership? Uh so obviously, like you saying you you moved into a team that fit better for you at Accenture. Eventually, I think just like a spot opened up, right? And you were able to move up to become like a manager of that team. Uh, maybe you can talk on that experience, and then uh what what have you learned about leadership through the experience at Accenture? And and you could even talk on like your RA experience or anything, but like uh yeah, how did how did you move up move up to that manager position? And then what do you what have you learned about leadership through all through all of your experiences?

Blake 1:41:36

So this is an interesting thing, actually. Um so the the thing is so the way that it happened at Accenture is basically I there was an opportunity to join the mobile team, um, which instead of doing like traditional like web sites that I was working on, I could work on a mobile app for our client, um, which I wanted to do, so I made the transition to that team. And from the day that I started till the day that I left there, in as far as like how the role was defined, I wasn't a manager. Like if you look in that strict definition of the role, I was just another developer. But the thing that I learned about leadership is that it is um, you know, it can happen at any level and it can happen at anywhere, and and and that kind of power and that kind of role is most of the times taken and not give it. Like you're not gonna be given more responsibility or given that managers and position without naturally like grabbing some of that and working towards that. So when I started out there, I was still doing like the same technical role that I was doing when I left there. The difference was after I got my footing for a little bit, I saw some different ways that the you know the team could be performing better. I saw about different ways I could advertise the work that we're doing better to the client and get them more on board. Um, and I started taking a little more ownership of like the code for the team. And it was all just about like faking it until you're making it. I started doing those things and I started acting more like a leader and people started treating me more like a leader. And I kept, you know, feeding back into each other to the point where it was like, oh yeah, he's the he's the technical lead. Um, even though like on paper I was not, and I never was like that role. If someone else were to take the over that role, like on paper, they're just another developer. So like the one thing that I think really um comes from that conversation about like taking the ownership and pride in your work, and this is who you are. So just learn to enjoy it and give it your all and give it your best, is like, you know, take that same approach, and as you start doing that, you get more responsibility natural, and that's kind of how I grew into a leader from from not being one previously.

Tom 1:43:47

Hmm. That's really interesting, man, because I I hear what you're saying, that makes a lot of sense, but it also goes against kind of what I've learned or what I've been told about how to survive in the corporate world, which is some of the advice I've been given or I see online is like don't do anything extra, don't do anything um outside of of your responsibilities, because then like the corporate world will just like, oh great, they'll just give you more responsibilities to do and give you more things to do, and you won't always get compensated for that. So, you know, I don't know, uh seems like you started doing more and then you got rewarded for it, but I I I'm nervous to pass that on as like always the advice because aren't there gonna wouldn't there be times where someone takes on a lot more and now everyone just expects them to do more and they don't always get rewarded for it, so it's a pro it becomes a problem, or I don't know. Is it what what do you think about that? A hundred percent.

Blake 1:44:49

No, you're you're absolutely right that like the problem with that is you're setting an expectation too, right? Like, and that's hard to live up to all the time because sometimes you're not always gonna be on your A game, right? But if everyone's expecting you to be, um, that can be hard. And you're totally right where you couldn't even be doing that work and not seeing compensation. For me, in my situation, I was I was moving up quickly, like things were working out for me, and that's what kind of like drove me. So um part of that too is having good leaders, right? Like if I didn't have people that was noticing it, I would feel less inclined to want to do that. So if you truly have someone that's like you feel like is your mentor, is your leader looking out for you at work, whether it's like your direct boss or maybe someone else that's higher up that also gets some help in the the decision making, um, like that's when you feel I feel like it's really beneficial to start taking this on. Like I and I I think just in general, the mindset that I approach things with was like a lot of people don't want to do extra, right? A lot of people, it's hard to get people from like a managerial perspective in corporate America like to get to do extra. So you stick out when you're like, yeah, I can tackle that. And that's part of like what sucks about like 20 to 25 year range when you're in your career, like, because you're like doing a lot of work, and a lot of it's just like wild one-off tasks, but just that whole mindset of like being like almost like a yes man, unfortunately, which is it it's hard and it's brutal and straining, but like you get that connotation about you, and like they you have people learning to rely on you for that, and like that's really what sets yourself apart. And like luckily, I was at a place where I was getting rewarded with that. And if you find that you're doing that and you're not getting the reward back from it, kind of like cutting off your friends, or or you know, being around people who actually care about you and and have empathy for you, like you need to find a different job. You need to find a different company, or you need to find a different boss. Like, if you're ever at a place where you're doing that extra work and you're not getting the benefits back, that means you're putting more into the relationship than you're getting out of it. Time to move on.

Tom 1:47:00

So it seems like if you're in the right position, then it's gonna be well worth your while to put in the extra work and to take more responsibilities, and you might get rewarded with more power or or um a better role. But if you're in the wrong situation, then what I'm saying applies, which is uh they're gonna take advantage of you, they're gonna put more work on your desk, and you're not gonna see any benefits. So, what do you think are ways to identify whether you're in the right situation, whether there is an opportunity for you to move up, and that putting in the extra work is gonna help help you in your career? Like, what are some things to be looking out for about like this is the right company, this is there are opportunities for me here.

Blake 1:47:45

Yeah. I think what number one is looking at your boss or whoever it is got it's say in your like performance achievement. Like so, and a lot of these big companies, right? Like it's um they go through like a calibrations where you're compared against all the other people of your your level, and really like the the person that's your your advocate is like really important in in how you get ranked and how you move up. So looking at at that person in your life um and seeing like what the feeling is. Are they just your boss or are they a leader to you? Are they just your boss or are they a mentor to you and and something that you aspire to be and they have a mutual respect for each other? Like you guys like they trust you, you trust them, and you feel like it's a a safe environment to work, basically. Um another way is like you can you can get a read on it by doing extra stuff, right? Sometimes it just doesn't like sometimes you're gonna like just try a little bit and see how the response is to fill it out. Maybe it is like trying to own a piece of work and then seeing like the output of that. Like, did you get good positive results from that? And then being able to make a decision based off that, like, oh, okay, it's not really worth it, I'd be putting in the extra work here, or oh, it is because I'm getting visibility and I I can see the direct response from that.

Tom 1:49:04

Hmm. Okay, so give it the benefit of the doubt and put in the hard work either way, and then make your decision. Don't be don't just like assume that that like putting in the extra work is gonna hurt you um before you give it a try. Right? And then whoever your direct boss is, I mean, like we were saying earlier about figure out if they like you, if they hate you, you're never moving up in this country in this company, and that's the st that's a whole story, you know. It could be a first bad impression or whatever, but if you if you get the feeling that your direct boss is is not a big fan of you, you're not it's it's just probably not gonna happen, you know. That's an uphill battle, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um so uh let's think. What else about um management, power in corporate life? Uh like I read this book on the 48 Laws of Power recently, and the first the first Law and I think he was saying it was the most important one or something. The most the most obvious one is never try to outshine your boss. I think this was a pretty big problem too when there was kings and stuff. Like you didn't want to outshine the king. And even like the the court jesters, they had to like tell the king that they were wrong, but in like comedy form. You know, they had to like tell jokes and stuff and be like, you're wrong, haha. You know, because you can't just like you can't outshine the king. You can't tell the king that he's wrong. And same thing with corporate America, right? You you know, if the the advice was like if you do something, you know, don't go tell like three managers up from you how good you did, make it seem like your manager did a great job at training you on how to do whatever you just did. You know what I'm saying? Like don't um don't disrespect that like line of of power and and and and try to overshine him. So for do you agree with that? And then do you are there any other dynamics or or rules or or just the way that corporate America is structured that um that you've learned and and or noticed, you know, similar to that?

Blake 1:51:09

Yeah, so first off, I think that um like there is a bit of a like a politics like Game of Thrones style approach to like managing working your way through these larger companies. But specifically with that, I I do agree with it in like a typical corporate setting, but on that's not the way it's supposed to be. And it's never supposed to be that way. In fact, it's supposed to be your manager empowering you and letting you shine. Like the manager doesn't need to like take credit for it. Like the manager like already has that position of power, they already have probably the compensation that that speaks to that. Like they don't need to be, you know, satisfying their own ego um and in the way they present things. Like, really, like, you know, if the team did the work, you present it as you know, the team did an awesome job, and naturally that gets applied to them. So the only time that it's like that is like when they have an ego problem. So uh really like I think a sign of a good leader is like you won't have that issue with them. But in general, like it is a good idea to like, you know, uh don't don't go skip levels, is what they call it, right? Like don't go to your boss's boss with something before you go to your boss, right? And I think in general that's a good idea, but I think um in in the right structures, like it should all like work out and like you never have that issue to begin with.

Tom 1:52:36

Hmm. Okay. How about um like like dealing with clients or coworkers? Um how do you how have you learned that you know is the best way to communicate with clients or people outside of your company? Um and and what's your what's your philosophy on on them?

Blake 1:52:57

Yeah, I I found the best way is just um I just treat it like uh enthusiastically. Um and also just like everything, like I I've been using the term empathy a lot during this this talk that we've had today, but like specifically when it when there's issues, when the clients are coming to you with issues, empathy, right? Like if they're coming to you angry about something, understanding why it's angry, uh why why they're angry. And I think another piece that kind of uh flows back into like what's made me successful is understanding like when a problem gets made, like when you your team messes up when you have a problem, like taking ownership of that, right? Like if you release a bug in a production, yes, I mean yes, we messed up. We've taken these steps to address it, we've taken these steps to prevent this from happening in the future. That will go such a long way in your career that it it's inconceivable. Because at the end of the day, that like that's what people want, right? Like you can't don't just say, Oh, yep, whoops, we we messed up. Like just coming with that plan of action will help turn any negative situation into a positive because it reframes it, right? As a, okay, this was a negative thing that happened, but look at how this has helped us progress in the future. Um, so that's kind of like how I treat it with my clients, right? Like just um reframing things, empathizing with them, um, and being enthusiastic with them and and making them the stars of their own story, right? There's a key aspect in storytelling where um when you're trying to sell something to somebody where you are not the hero, you're not the protagonist of the story, you are a supporting character. So maybe you're the reason why like the company was successful or your client had a successful release because it was all on you and your company, but like really you tell the story that they're successful and that you know you don't really talk it up to you. You talk about them and center it around them, and that that's really powerful just in everyday life.

Tom 1:55:01

Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, I've been talking about stories a lot, a lot on the podcast. I really like have appreciated the art of storytelling and the mean like the like you were saying, the power of just hearing a story and identifying with the main character, or like you're saying, helping a client tell their story um and getting kind of getting out of the way and being that supporting character is big, right? Um what we've just talked about a lot of it. How do you think about the story of your life? Like, you know, like what is what is your story? How would you sum it up?

Blake 1:55:38

If I had to sum up a story, my story is one of um someone who figured out who he wanted to be and unapologetically worked towards becoming that person, all the while realizing and acknowledging the mistakes that he made along the way and improving. And really that's like the main thing that I want to have like my driving force up until the day that I die. Like I want to be okay with you know seeing where I made mistakes and learning from those. I want to be um continuously learning things and taking in that information and understanding the negatives of those things and understanding the positives and using it all just to make myself a better version of myself. I I think earlier in my I had this really big emphasis on on feeling like I was destined for greatness or success, and that I, you know, was was the protagonist of of life. I was the main character, you know, and realizing that that's not always the case, and just realizing that like um you know, that it's your own story, and and and really having that mindset made me very unhappy when things got hard. It made me unhappy when I got into post-grad life and I got burned out, and I feel like I wasn't achieving this this destiny that I had pre-planned for myself. So just like learning to love the journey, and just like in video games, learning to enjoy playing the game, and the moment that it becomes like all about the goals and you're not enjoying the process, something needs to change because at the end of the day, we got the process, and that's all that's gonna be there, right? Like, you know, that's just the way it is. Like enjoying the present and taking it for what it is, and stop focusing so much on the outcome. I mean, the outcomes are important too, but like really you gotta learn to love the the process.

Tom 1:57:42

For sure, man. I've been building this puzzle lately. I don't know if you saw it, but once I get down to like 20 pieces left, I just stopped working on it because I was like, well, it's gonna be over. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to finish, it's it's about building this puzzle, and it's almost it's almost a cruel, um, ironic reality, but I lost the last piece, I don't know where it is. So the process is continues as I search my house for this one fucking puzzle piece. But you know, like it wasn't about the goddamn picture that I'm building either, you know what I'm saying? So it's been kind of nice, it's been a little nice almost, you know.

Blake 1:58:16

Yeah, exactly. Because like imagine like you wouldn't be building a puzzle if like the only satisfaction you got was like once you put it in that final piece and you're like, yeah, this is awesome. Because like otherwise, the the rest 90% of the time is just frustration and like anger, and you wouldn't be wanting to do that. And it's like the same way with anything, really.

Tom 1:58:35

Yeah, man, I'm also like obsessed with seeing these little like mini life cycles within life, you know? Um, like uh what's it called? Sometimes an album can represent like a whole life cycle or um you know, a weekend with friends or something can feel like that. But uh like with this puzzle has been a lifespan of its own too. And I'm like, as soon as I put that last piece in, that it's he's dead. Like the puzzle is dead. I mean he's finished, you know what I'm saying? But like it's also it's been a l it's been a lifespan, and like the my puzzle's like 98 years old right now, and I don't know, it's it's it's always like that when you accomplish your goals too. You know what I'm saying? Like as soon as you graduated, the the lifespan of college was dead, and as soon as you got to your manager role, the I mean you it seems like you didn't like that lifespan, but the lifespan of of the beginning years of your career are over, you know, the things like that are helping me appreciate the the journey you're talking about because it's everyone says it too. It's very hard to to you know, you can abstract that and understand that that journey is important, but then you really need to like tackle that idea in different ways to like understand the perspective and remind yourself of like, oh yeah, like I don't want this to die or end, or you know, like I don't know. The the goal the goal is exciting, but it's also the death of something. So to you know, it helps enjoy the moment, I guess, better.

Blake 2:00:04

Yeah, and it's so funny you say that, but and and like wrapping it up in this lifespan idea, because I thought recently the same thing about like leaving a team or leaving a job is kind of like dying uh in in regards of like that time period is is gone and over with, and it's like just nothing but like a memory now, and that's just the way it is, and it's like truly like a lifespan, yeah. And that's how I feel like you can take what you learned from it and move forward, but um that thing is gone and and is a is a piece of history and in your memory now.

Tom 2:00:39

Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yo, do you care if we go for like 10 more minutes? 15 or should we end? Yeah, do it. Yeah. Because I uh it says two hours, but I've never been a but I I if I remember correctly, I messed around at certain points, so like I feel like I could edit it down to two hours if we do 215. Um okay, so one more like functional question is um I feel like you're very new to your Capital One job. Maybe we can talk about that experience a a little bit, um, but also maybe a little too soon. So the the big question I have here is for those who are leaving their their current job and looking for a new job, how did you go about um because it's really overwhelming, it's especially with work from home, you could work every everywhere. So how'd you go about um deciding it was time to leave, um, picking a new place to work, um just realizing it was the right fit for you and and the right career move? And uh yeah, how how how did you go about that decision and and and process the the career switch from Accenture to Capital One?

Blake 2:01:47

This is gonna be uh maybe not the best answer for the like mass majority. So for me, it was I I was just unhappy. I could tell that I was getting unmotivated in my current job. I didn't have the same passion that I had. I I could tell that it was time for a change. I was there for you know six years. Um I I could tell that it was it was time for something new. Um, but I wasn't I was still like happy there. I was still making progress. It was still a really great company. Um, and the way that I ended up at Capital One was just that a recruiter hit me up. And like I truly, in my regard, I like was not actively job hunting. Like I wasn't like, okay, I'm gonna switch jobs and apply to some places. Like I just had a recruiter hit me up and then I I messaged them back being like, I'm interested in this job. Because it was funny too, because it was for a senior manager role and they were asking me if I knew anybody, and I was like, I want to apply to the senior manager role. I was kind of offended that he just said, you know, do you know anybody? I was like, I it's all right, all right, well, sign me up. And like I kind of like forced his hand, being like, okay, well, now I can't like say no to that. So I interviewed for that position. I ended up they kind of like what I expected happened was you know, they liked me, but they didn't, you know, they wanted to offer me a manager position, not a senior manager position, which made sense with my like experience. Um and so like when I made the transition, the important thing for me was realizing what I wanted, what I was lacking at my current job and like what I wanted from a new position. And for me, I was really I'm really about mobile technology, mobile apps, building great mobile apps and and their features and the whole life cycle and around them. And I realized that Accenture, that was just a smaller focus. Um, there wasn't a lot of federal clients that were doing mobile applications, and I felt like I wasn't surrounded by the by people as passionate about me as mobile. Like people were coming to me with for the with the questions, and like I wanted to be around smarter people than I when it came to mobile. And like going over to Capital One, where they had 300 mobile engineers, was uh from a place where I could be surrounded by that. And and everyone was on the same page in that same environment. And that's really um really what spoke out to me and made me realize that this is the right position for me.

Tom 2:04:04

Hmm. Yo, a random thought that came up, which is what um with the whole web three paradigm, uh why are you still so passionate about mobile apps? Like aren't like aren't those part of the web two paradigm and like maybe uh maybe not the future anymore? Or like why are you still so excited and focused on mobile applications in in this era? Oh man, you ready for me to get on a soapbox?

Blake 2:04:33

Yeah. So here's the thing about mobile apps, right? Like for me, the first aspect of it is it feels very tangible to me out of all the other kind of software development. Um, like it feels more touchable because it is on a phone, like it feels more like concrete, and like when I say architecting an app, like it really feels like you're building something physical, like maybe like even like woodworking in comparison. It just feels different in that regard. But the main thing for me is that mobile phones are such an important part of a person's life now that it's almost scary. Like when you don't have your phone on you, you feel like lost, right? Like it's become an actual part of like you as a person, as a human being. Like and this device here is an extension of you as an individual, and it's what connects you to the digital space. And without it, you feel lost. So it's such an important part in in being a person in today's society, and like being able to build an app that helps connect people to the digital, like this is a medium that people interact with the digital space with. And be able to like build something like that, it's so it's so personable because it's so intertwined with who they are and like the way they interact on a day-to-day basis. Like, there's just something so tangible about it that I I absolutely love. And um, to going back on your your your web 3 talk, um the thing about the mobile spaces, like you can still use web mobile apps with web 3, right? It's the same way that like web 3, there's web 3 websites, you can have like a web 3 kind of back end and still have a mobile application that interacts with it. So I think it's always gonna be there. Like what's going on behind the scenes, behind the hood, it's gonna be um a little different, but it's still gonna be there.

Tom 2:06:27

Yeah, like I've I've considered doing some sort of NFTs as like you know, achievement points or like a decentralized even currency that acts as a point system in Drive Fitness, but it would so even if I put together a Web3 application, it would still need the mobile interface no matter what. So it's not gonna be a waste of time for you to pursue mobile apps as like a career where Web3 is not really gonna come replace it in in the in the typical way we think about like a replacement paradigm, you know? They're gonna coexist. But then also what doesn't augmented reality, do you think that has a chance of coming and replacing mobile apps? Um or n or no? Do you think they're gonna like both be used kind of simultaneously, or or maybe even like the skills and like the feel of a mobile app is just gonna be projected in our vision augmented so it's not doesn't really matter, you know?

Blake 2:07:26

Yeah, that's a great question. I think um I think for a point, yeah, I think in the media future, like they're gonna code this. Like there's gonna be times where augmented reality is more of a stationary thing, um, in the sense of like like uh the more media uh AR being like maybe like working from home setup, right? You're gonna be at your desk and there's AR, but still when you're on the go, when you're traveling, you're commuting, it might be a little uh you know, even if like you're walking to the coffee shop, you're gonna have your phone there to be able to stay mobile and use it. Um and I think in the far future, I think you're you've done the point on the head there with like it's gonna be you're gonna translate the mobile apps into like a AR space and the and the interactions they are now like an augmented reality, and there's still like the same kind of paradigm that exists, but it's just gonna be the medium is shifted a little bit.

Tom 2:08:15

Yeah, and it's probably a little too far away to ship your career, like to I mean, there is augmented careers uh and VR careers you can go take, but I feel like we're probably we're probably still 10 years, five years out. I don't know. I don't know, man. I don't know how f how far out we are. We could be three or four. It's it's hard to say.

Blake 2:08:36

Yeah, it's so hard to tell. It's hard to get a read on it. Um yeah, and like I said with the Web3 thing, like it's still like I think it's still gonna serve its purpose even for once AR and BR become even more consumer friendly and adopted than it is now, like there'll still be a pretty significant time period where like mobile applications exist and still used heavily.

Tom 2:08:59

Ugh, I d we could talk all day about tech stuff. I t I said we wouldn't. So um last question, uh one of the last questions maybe is um what is the meaning of life?

Blake 2:09:14

That's the beauty of life, is it is that you get to assign yourself what that meaning is. So I think it's different for each individual. For me, my meaning is creating a better future for my bloodline and my kids and and the ki the kids that they have, um, and kind of like making making sure that they have something that I didn't have growing up, and that's really what drives me and like what what makes me want to be successful. Um and that's really what like I get personal satisfaction and motivation out of. But I think the beauty of of life is that you know, for you it might be something different, you know, and it's really cool that we get to figure that out and assign that value ourselves, and that's almost like so much more powerful than like whatever it is that each individual person said the meaning of life is just the fact that we all can have that difference in opinion and difference in what what what gives us up every day.

Tom 2:10:14

Is like the fact that you didn't come from much is is that ties into like why you want to give your kids like the opportunities that you didn't have or just like a better life, or is that is there a connection there you think? Because I'm I'm curious basically Yeah, and I think they're all kind of sorry, go on.

Blake 2:10:35

No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

Tom 2:10:37

Oh, I was gonna say I'm curious as to why you s didn't say leave like the whole world in a better place, you just said for your bloodline, you know? I'm just wondering like why why is that yeah such your focus, you know?

Blake 2:10:52

Yeah. I well I I will say definitely leaving the world a better place is definitely like on there too. The the more like selfish reason is for my bloodline, and I think it is tied back to kind of like not having as much growing up and and like joining this world of corporate America where you see a lot of differences and like backgrounds and stuff and saying like I want to help my kids out as much as I can. Um but I think all of it goes back to this like repetition process, right? Like evolution is is repeating upon itself and iterating and getting you know evolving species to get better and better. Um, software, right, is is taking cycles and improving the product slowly with releases and getting better and better. Same with like music and practicing a skill, right? Getting better and better and better. And that's just kind of how I see it on like a you know, I'm I'm doing my part in that rotation of iteration, right? Like I'm I'm improving my bloodline specifically. Um, all the while, right? Like I still want to put a gut into the world and and try to make the world a better place. And and you know, one of the most important things I think is to leave everything that you encounter in a better place than what you found it. That means um like picking up trash. uh you know after yourself but picking up trash that you didn't even leave like from a physical standpoint but also with relationships right if i left a rel like i i think it's good to to you know i want people to have benefited from our relationship like i want them to i want to have been a positive influence i want to have have brought value into their life i don't want them going away being like wow i wish i never met Blake that was it I don't want to be the bad person in someone's life who's not empathizing with them or helping them achieve their goals so I I think it's really important just to to try to leave everything that you found in a better place but also I want to serve my my selfish reason of of like iterating and making you know the next future Blake uh in a better spot in the world.

Tom 2:12:47

Yeah I mean I was telling you earlier that my I I still do have goals of creating some scalable system or application that makes everyone's life better but I've realized that like it's it really comes down to the one-on-one interactions like your your pile of karma over here it really depends on how you treated people in in in your one-on-one relationships and interactions and if you instilled confidence or or if you made fun of them and made them feel shitty you know like these things carry a lot of weight and I always just thought that like my the the company I was building or software I was building could hopefully scale out and just help everyone in some way like a like a Instagram or Facebook but you know I wasn't always taking and because of that it made me feel like I didn't have to be nice to everyone on a one-to-one interaction you know I'm saying so when I didn't achieve that goal as fast as I wanted to that was a wake up call too but also it's just I've realized that like you know your what you what you your um your legacy and what and what you accomplished does have a lot to do more with those micro interactions than you think you know for sure yeah 100% you know it's not about like changing the world for everyone it's about changing someone's world individually and and being that person for them and and just the fact that we all exist and in in this time period is just absurd and just astronomically crazy.

Blake 2:14:21

And the fact that we can just like be here and exist and have these relationships and and help each other grow has an like just changing just any person's experience in life I think is just like equivalent of changing the world because that is their world right um and I I couldn't agree with that sentiment more.

Tom 2:14:43

Alright well I think we're gonna wrap up man I'm I'm really proud of you I'm really impressed in of your career um like I said the podcast was a little different when you first came on so I'm really glad that we got the chance to like sit down and do a full story because um yeah man it's it's impressive it's always inspired me and still to this day man you're someone that I look up to even though I'm older than you're someone that I I try to be more and more like um with with my career but also just with my my interpersonal existence with other people so thank you for being inspiration and sharing and sharing your story dude it's it's really impressive.

Blake 2:15:18

Well I think man I really appreciate that and and the feeling is beautiful too like I I definitely like in talking about all the things that are like drawing um the positives and and drawing from the world around you like you've been a major part of my life obviously and and like seeing all the things about you that I want to be more like is one of the reasons why we're so close. There's a lot of aspects to you and and your your social skills and and your passion and your motivation is something that I try to inspire to and it's helped me learn to absorb as much information and experience as I can. I'm I'm super happy to be here on the podcast again and I feel like I'm in a different mind state um and I I'm just it's really cool. You know you summed it up really nice talking about how everything kind of feels like an album can encapsulate a moment in a person's life and like I feel like a podcast can do the same thing. So it it's really powerful what you're doing here and I'm happy to be here.

Tom 2:16:12

Yeah man this was like a whole lifetime for you to you know just just zipped up in two hours it's crazy. But um yeah dude you got a you got a good story. I'm glad I'm glad we got it all down you know in one episode all right yeah me too take it easy